Tuesday, April 7, 2009

Whatever Happened, Happened

Black Rock LOST Podcast: Season 5 Episode 11 of ABC's TV show, LOST entitled Whatever Happened, HAppened. Curt, Dan and Nancy Drew give their usual treatment with a look at Mirror Images, What did we miss last Wednesday and any updated theories. We had joked that Ms Hawking was a druid but then we the "Land of the Living" in Celtic lore, a place that moves around, where peiople don't age and there is no sickness? It get's even better so give us a listen.



Anonymous said...

I feel sorry for Dan, getting that caught up in continuity errors, taking away from his enjoyment of the story telling. Quite petty on Dan's part if you ask me.

Curt said...

In his defense I can say that he is not alone. I see on community sites lots of people chalking it up to a bad continuity error. If that is in fact the case, then I can't say that I disagree with him so I, for one, am suggesting we're just being thick and not taking it as part of the narrative.

Anonymous said...

StefanyMac's article and this podcast seem to really paint Kate in a poor light.

To be fair, I think that the adult Oceanic 5 all took turns during the three years off-island that were intended to make the audience like them less. Jack and Kate more so than the others because these characters, far from the leadership roles they played on the island, became aimless and weak, essentially lost.

She was running for so long... what was she to do now?

As for the bank robbery, despite Kate's baffling behaviour, she was strong-willed and driven by real feelings. I for one loved her for that.

As for the seemingly equally baffling decision of leaving Aaron behind, I simply look to Kate's vision of Claire. I for one don't think that was an isolated incident. If the psychic picked up on the danger that Aaron would be in if raised by strangers(Kate), maybe in some way Kate picked up on that as well.

One other thing I agree with you all on is that with these last two flashback, character-centric episodes, we really don't get as deep an insight into the character's motivations as with other flashback episodes we're used to. In fact, similar to "life and death of JB", the storytelling is almost entirely centred on filling in narrative gaps. While it may be necessary, we as the audience feel less satisfied at the end of the day and the decisions of our characters make less and less sense.

Curt said...

Well said. It wasn't really my intention to paint her in a negative light, in fact I felt I gave her character more credit than usual (ok that was the community call). I just find her character so confusing. When I pull back and ask myself what/sho is Kate, I struggle to come up with an answer. Jack, Locke, Sayid, Sawyer, Hugo and Sun are all pretty easy to sum up on the other hand. Even at face value, of the stuff you point out, I feel like her character is swerving between lanes and fairly unpredictable.

Nancy Drew said...

First, I'd just like to comment that it wasn't us, the podcasters or the writer of an article, that painted a bad picture of Kate. This was the doings of the writers of Lost. Second, to be fair would mean that you've listened to the other podcasts we've done this season and heard us commenting on the negativity of the other characters that have been shown in their "dark" hour(s)--Jack, Sayid, Sun, John, Kate, etc. It wasn't like we watched the episode and then all decided to do a Hate-Kate conference. This is the message that the writers of this show were trying to convey to the viewer, in my opinion. I do truly believe that we are all feeling exactly what the molders and shapers of this show want us to feel about these characters. Unfortunately, Kate is a character that is always going to have the negativity follow her wherever she goes and with whatever she does because that is what "makes" her character strong enough to handle things like hand-stitching someone's gaping wound, walking through a haunted jungle at night, surviving a plane crash just to board more planes, and leaving a child that you've raised for three years. And trust me, I do not like Kate, but I do understand that her character needs to be this way because she has been a woman surviving in a man's island.

Mooreberg said...

Do you have any links about the mythical Irish island you discussed? That is probably the coolest and most logical comparison I've heard between Lost and mythology. Great stuff!

Anonymous said...

As you might expect this is a rebutal for Anonymous.
Ok, first off Nancy Drew totally beat me to this but I'll say my peace anyway...
1)It wasn't the podcasters or me that painted Kate in a bad light. That was done by the writers. If you remember, I was very clear on the fact that it was the all-over-the-place writing that I was bashing.
2)I have liked Kate, maybe even loved her since she was our main female hero over the years. I also said the the writers frequently change her character behavior to suit the needs of a plot devise. Like her setting herself up to get knocked out in 'The Other Woman'. I want the writers to do a better job with her.
3)You called Kate and the Oceanic 5 aimless and weak? Are YOU painting Kate in a bad light?
4)The bank robbery? She killed a man and endangered a bank full of innocent people. All for what? A toy plane? You call that strong willed and based on real feelings.I call it selfish and obsessive. Kinda reminds me of Locke and Ben now that I think about it.
5)I agree that the writers are wanting to make us dislike her. They wanted us to see how bad life was because they left the island. 6)As for Kate's 'leadership' skills on island... One of the example's I used as a complaint was her more typically defiant behavior as witnessed in 'The Hunting Party'. She defies Jack's order to stay behind only to be captured by the Others. This act gets Sawyer's ear shot off, Michael captured, the Losties guns confiscated and everybody emasculated and generally pissed. Great leadership skills.
6)I listened to a lot of podcasts this week, as usual. The opinions expressed on Black Rock and in my article were shared by the majority of the other podcasts. I only heard a couple of sources that praised Kate as a whole.
7)Lastly I will remind you that as I said in my article, to my own surprise, as the week wore on the episode grew on me. I think (?) Curt may have said the same thing. I liked the consistently positive decisions Kate was making. I just need more of this mature behavior from her. I can't go from 0-60 in one episode.
Finally I will say to feel free to come back and challange me anytime you wish. I am honing my debate skills at Lostaholics and getting schooled by the best. Though I did express my opinions in my article, you can't say I got my facts wrong.

Eric Weissen said...

Go Stefany Mac,
And for the record. I feel that this is the most balanced, constructive and unbiased podcast that I have listened to.

I feel it deals with charachter analysis and development as apposed to assasination because they've done something 'we' the viewers don't agree with.


Anonymous said...

Nancy talked about the religious implications of innocense. One other thing I thought about, that I don't think she talked about, was how guilt and judgement can factor in. When you are a child, an innocent, there are many things you can be forgiven for that you can't once you are grown. At that time you reach an age of accountability. Perhaps once you have been 'reborn'(or whatever it is) in the temple, your innocense is lost, you've bitten from the fruit of island knowledge. And in doing that you can no longer claim to be free from the island's judgement. SPOILER ALERT In the previews for the next episode Ben says to Locke, "I broke the rules John. I came back to the island to be judged."

Also, I too would like to see more about 'Otherworld'.

Whew, I had to work hard to listen to the podcast and post before Wednesday's show. I don't think this last show is uploading in iTunes properly. I had to go hunt it down in the iTunes store. You know me, Curt. I get the shakes when I know you've got a show out there and I can't get at it.

Anonymous said...

OMG Eric, you must be obsessing about this show instead of sleeping too!!

Anonymous said...

Continuity Errors
I stopped putting myself down for nit picking on details a long time ago. The writers have trained us to do this. In Deus Ex Machina John Gets hurt in his right leg with shrapnel. Boone points out that while he was hurt in the right leg he is actually having trouble with his left leg. This leg trouble is what causes Boone to be the one to climb the Nigerian plane instead of Locke. One theory is that it might have something to do with the fact that Locke was shot by Ethan(in HIS future)while there underneath the Nigerian plane right after it first crashed (in the ISLAND'S past). Theories aside, my point is that the show was pointing out their own continuity errors WITHIN THE SHOW ITSELF.
I was going to write an article about all the glaring continuity errors this season. I was going to call it "Bring Me The Head Of Greg Nations". However TimeIsRelivant beat me to it at Lostaholics in a very articulate post in the forums that covered it all. I think we can all agree that when it's as obvious as that bullet wound, we are meant to notice it. We are not being petty. We are just anxious for the explanation that needs to be there.

Eric Weissen said...


I am obsessed, I watch each episode twice, watch all seasons during hiatus and listen to both Black Rock podcasts twice to get me through to the next episode!

I think I have OCD. I just hope that all this loyalty and effort pays off.

Ps. I'm in the UK so it's early morning.

Mairuzu said...

I never post comments.

What? I just did? CONTINUITY ERROR!

heh.. but seriously, continuity errors in a show like this take away from the show. Why would you feel bad for me if I feel that it tainted the show a bit? After all, don't they hire and pay people to watch for continuity? Sounds like it might be an important thing. Do we really want to go back to the sloppy way old serials used to show us the hero drive off a cliff in a car to explode in a twisted wreck, only to show in the next episode that he had opened the door and jumped out just before it drove off the cliff--when we clearly saw the hero in the driver's seat to the end?

I'm not sure it's nitpicking when it becomes glaringly obvious to even the people who aren't looking for it.

Anonymous said...


Is your name really Annie Wilkes? I think you just discribed the the whole plot motivation for the movie/book 'Misery'. Gee, I hope we don't all get so worked up we kidnap Damon or Carlton and try to hobble them. Then again they did show that movie at Comi-Con where they were coming from the future wearing eye patches because a fan was so disapointed by the finale that they took their eye out.

I'll just try my deep breathing now. Ohm, ohm, ankh, ankh...

Anonymous said...

You said we haven't seen Faraday in several episodes... wasn't he seen underground in a scientist outfit just after coming to Dharma? He was there when the doctor was scolding the construction manager was trying to drill into the wall neer the wheel...

Also you said that RA has only been off the island a couple times... I count at least three that we know of... interviewing young John Lock, recruiting Juliete, and with Juliete's sister...

I think there needs some time spent on Miles role and his abilities.... if people coming out of the temple are dead/zombie and he can tell how people died, etc, and was hand picked by Widmore to go on the freighter..??

Anonymous said...

Why is it no big deal that the soldiers think RA should check with Charles (Widmore) and Ellie Faraday's Mom) before he takes Ben to the temple? No one seems to be talking about it.