Friday, October 30, 2009

Lostaholics reWatch: s04e05-07

Lostaholics reWatch of ABC's TV show, LOST. The inaugural reWatch podcast hosted by Lostaholics and Nancy Drew along with her old crew from the Black Rock complete with LostLindsey. Also back on the scene is Heath & Ms Wendy from LOST Revisited Now. The Sargent, our newest member, is back too. Collectively we revisit these episodes with season 5 eyes to see if there is any new meaning to be found in these past episodes and whether or not Stevie Wonder is God!



Keys To Lost said...

Hey guys - great podcast - sorry that a last minute re-recording kept me off this block.

First - Lostlindsey and Sgt Draino are right about Desmond and Farraday not remembering.

Farraday wouldn't remember Desmond in 2001 and 1996 for the same reasons. Dan sends Desmond to himself in 1996 from the present day - so to that point he has no memory of Desmond. Additionally Daniel doesn't remember Desmond from 2001 because this hasn't happened to Daniel yet.

Desmond is a little more tricky. I think the same way that the donkey wheel throws who ever turns it to a spot in the future (as much as three years in Locke's case) it makes a case that events as memories planted from on the island may make a similar jump - hence Desmond not remembering Faraday in 2001.

1996 - the effects of consciousness jumping has yet to be determined. The writers could easily say the Desmond finding his Constant in 1996 and not completing that jumping until after he has met Farraday in 2004 and is already on the freighter would veil his memory of said events until the jumping is complete.

Ok - now that I've thoroughly confused myself - feel free to take your shots. :)

-Matt (Keys to LOST)

Keys To Lost said...

One other note - this LOSTies flashing not the island is key to this whole theory as well - which definately would explain why Jin wouldn't recognize Danielle the first time he encounters her in 2004 (before going to 1988). Danielle on the other hand never experienced the event of Jin because she is dead before the Losties flash and thus has no memory of this - I know - It's definately NOT whatever happened happened - but I'm a reset guy. LOL

Curt said...

You guys need to lay off the psychoactive drugs. What you're saying is, there is no future or past but that everything is happening now? I don't get how someone years later doesn't know about something that happened years earlier because it only just happened?! WTF? Now that I've said that publicly, you're probably right, but only just now that I said it.

arturo said...

wow great podcast!

I agree with Curt too, I think whatever happened, happened, although Des and Farraday situation is a bit awkward.

Do you remember in season 5 when Christian showed a picture of Dharma Initiative photo with losties in the 70's? Well I think this is the answer to whatever happened, happened. Because this means that this photo was in one of those Dharma houses for a while, actually since 70's. It didn't just magically appear in the present because 1977 Hurly or whoever put it there.

Also, I am quite certain that both Desmonds got swapped, because at the end of the episode you see Des say Sayid's almost like he just learned it. So I believe that we are left with Desmond 96 in the present. This means that Desmond knew the whole thing, but somehow his memory was messed up, so he only saw flashes of the future.

Another awesome theory I heard in this podcast that I also was thinking about, that Juliet is the Statue! Maybe when she fell she lost a toe or something and when they built the statue it was dedicated to her.

And finally, crazy thing, I think Locke built the Smoke Monster. :)

Can't wait for season 5 podcasts, season 5 with season 5 eyes hehe!

Keys To Lost said...

I believe that if whatever happened happened is true then you cannot have a mobius strip or a reset. That may be the case. But if we're going to say that we punch a hole in the mobius strip then it affects both sides - no matter which was traversed first, but it only effects the loop AFTER the hole has been punched.


arturo said...

Keys to lost, I see what you mean, but I wonder if we can still keep the mobius strip theory without cutting any holes in it?

What if the surfaces of the mobius strip get really close to each other in situations like Desmond and Faraday, so when Faraday knocks on the hatch door, the surface of past and present almost touch each other, and Desmond actually receives the message in both past and present.

So instead of reset, we might have a case of a flat mobius strip, where present and past overlap and some characters might know what happened or will happen after the crash?

Curt said...

I think of the mobius strip more as the intertwining of events across time.

Keys To Lost said...

How convenient. How does a continous loop that has no defined begining or ending with two sides intertwine with anything along a string theory time then?

arturo said...

hehehehe, i think lost will have a very simple explanation to all this maddness, they have to have simple explanation right?

Keys To Lost said...

I think you are correct arturo, and honestly - the simplest explination is that some of the things that were planned for the show early on have had to be changed, even by Damon and Carlton's own admission. It's the investment of great minds like Curt, and hacks such as myself, that makes it difficult for us to let go of the the theoretical end of things. After all - LOST - like all great art - lays out a grey area, but presents it in a way that we as the viewers tend to polarize ourselves more towards one end of the spectrum or the other. It's ingenius, because arguing about a television show as applied by scientific theory is something that keeps interest in the show.

If whatever happened happened , and I won't argue if it comes down to that, most of my theories are off the table completely. Minkowski cubes make for an argument of fate however, and I'm a believer in the potential of mankind (the overarching thesis of this show) being more about choice. So - if we have reset - which I think Curt and I both may feel is the source of the mobius strip being created - and broken -as you mentioned a possibilty of - then I feel this 'choice' throws the 'usual' rules of time out the window, and we are already being shown that potential in these incidents with Desmond, Daniel, etc. Will the show fully explain this to everyone's satisfaction? Probably not - will that make me enjoy the show any less - even if proven totally wrong - ABSOLUTELY NOT! For me the journey is always to be savored more than the destination - because there's never a guarantee that one will get to that destination.

Anyway - sorry to all for taking up so much board space on this block.

Curt said...

I used to look for the 'simple' answer but then Mouse Trap is another metaphor for the show so I no longer think that.

I think it will be a tangled and convoluted web of human interactions that effectively cancel each other out, which for us means, progress.

Mairuzu said...

Why does it have to be simple? :)

This show is nothing more than Spy vs Spy. :) It's black vs White, neither side is necessarily the good guy or bad guy, they're setting up intricate traps and making sure they get spring. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't and they become the victim of their own traps. It seems like the perfect metaphor for this whole show.

Nancy Drew said...

Wow! If I had to describe the comments for this week's show, I would definitely say that we've had the both ends of the spectrum--the simple cat and mouse game explanations and the more complex Rube Goldberg of conversations.

I'm not sure I can get on either bandwagon with this discussion. First of all, in the case of Daniel, if he didn't have the memory problems caused by his exposure to his experiments, he probably would have remembered Desmond being in his life in 1996. Just because he hadn't sent Desmond back yet should have no bearing on it whatsoever. But I can see how that could be a plausible explanation given that Desmond woke up in Season 5 after having a "memory" and not a dream. Richard seems to remember John all throughout time after 1954, and it's even hinted at prior to John skipping back in time. And given the speculation on Juliet and the comment of "you look like her", she may be remembered also from the 70's. And as for Desmond not remembering Daniel after the knock on Swan, I would almost chalk that up to drinking. We know that there were several instances of drunkeness on Desmond's watch in the Swan, so some of his memories might be a bit "fuzzy"...

There's also the note that Daniel left himself in his notebook:

He found a note he had written for himself back in 1996: "If anything goes wrong, Desmond Hume will be my constant." [quote from Lostpedia]

So, Daniel SHOULD have remembered Desmond.

As far as the mobius strip, I think it only exists on the character level, with each character having their own, but with the connections these characters have, both past and present, I think it's possible that there are some "linked" strips. It's almost a "ties that bind" feeling and maybe Jacob or the island is the glue that keeps their strips together--but more of a wrapped or linking bind, like a chain.

And Curt, psychoactive drugs are the key! haha!

JayJay said...

The question begs, if there is such thing as time travel, where is the present? The present could be anywhere, and why we see Desmond receive the plead for help from Faraday at that moment in season 5, I think the producers want us to believe that is the present. But if you think about it, why didn't he receive the thought a day before, because he could have recalled that memory anytime from the time he received it an infinite future point.

Curt said...

And another points that begs for attention is, what is the point of time travel is not to change something?

I personally hate the idea but... doesn't mean it couldn't be used in story telling. I like the idea of visiting the future and 'locking' it in more than going back and 'changing' something.

JayJay said...

There's always been the notion of course correction. My theory is time-travel is used for course correction. We know Jacob doesn't like technology, so were Dharma allowed to discover the island, and bring all their technology there? Maybe MrX allowed them to come, just like Jacob allowed the Black Rock to come. Since Dharma have come how does Jacob get rid of them?

What about use Jack and team to blow the swan to smitherines and exterminate Dharma and change the future for team Jack as a reward for helping him.

That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.