Monday, May 10, 2010

The Candidate

Black Rock LOST Podcast: Season 6 episode 14 of ABC's TV show, LOST. Curt, Dan, Nancy Drew, Lost Lindsey along with James. Collectively we take a second look try to get past the Sun & Jin death.


Narrative update.... MIB needs them all dead but can't kill them himself so... how does that work? Nothing a little over-analysis can't at leat try to understand.

Ubercaster worked this time but... I didn't get Compression & Normalization on the master track! Still leave some room for improvement ;-)

Pleasant Software - Ubercaster


JayJay said...

previously on... survivor, Jack wins immunity which grants him extra time on the island and avoids elimination. His alliance me Hugo, Kate and Sawyer taker them to the final four. Go a suprise triple elimination saw Jin, Sun and Sayid leave the game go a shock tribal council. Who will outwit, outplay, outlast and win the coverted position of soul survivor?

JayJay said...

damn speller on the cell phone made my comment unreadable

JayJay said...

me = of & go = in

Curt said...

Hehe, nice.

Nancy Drew said...

Bring on the next episode! I'm ready for more!

Trollonymous said...

I said it before, I'll say it again, you guys asked who might Smokie have working for him in Widmore's camp?

Zoe, literally, "The Last Recruit", when she listened to the MiB's response to her explosive ultimatum she was claimed. Where was she when Widmore's team were being rag-dolled at the bear cages?

Also, I think the reason the MiB didn't have everyone hop on the plane and blow themselves up while he excused himself was because he knew he couldn't get Jack on the plane and needed all of them there.

If Jack was the only remaining candidate then the MiB's plan was screwed.

By going for the more heavily guarded submarine, the chances of all of the candidates being killed or injured were much higher. Jack would always try to treat an injury and the only safe place to do so was on the sub.
Btw, the only lostie harmed in that shoot-out was the one no longer on Widmore's list and as such no longer under the Island's protection, if some theories are to be believed. That was convenient.

Even if Smokie's plan had succeeded, Desmond, the wild card, is still alive and obviously the MiB is either forbidden or unable to kill Des.

Lost Lindsey said...

@JayJay...awesome Love it!!!

Miguel said...

Entertaining podcast as always.
Some you guys felt like the Jin and Sun death was too long and it was more emotional drama instead of giving us answers. This scene might have had a little more value than just killing of characters. I think the island is all about redemption. Jacob brings people to the island that have troubled past and then him and MIB play their little game to see if they can be corrupted or if they can redeem themselves. Jin the candidate came to the island as a troubled man that neglected his wife, was selfish, unemotional, and a thug. Even though he had these traits there was still some good in him and in the end he realized that he had been wrong and that all that mattered was the love for his wife. The old Jin would have probably left her but this new Jin found redemption in sacrificing his life for her. This act allowed him to die and have a better life in an AT. If a candidate chooses corruption he belongs to smokey and smokey can have his way with him/her. If they choose redemption then the island is done with them, they are able to die and move on to a better AT. Im sure Dogen found redemption on the island for being a neglectful father and he is currently in another time line with his son. I might be crazy but this is what I got from the deaths in this episode.

Anxiously waiting for the next episodes

Curt said...

@Troll - Excellent point about Jack and not getting on the plane. So fLocke changes plans takes them to the sub which isn't protected so much as design to force them to retreat onto it. Heck, I never paid close attention but I heard it speculated that fLocke himself shot Kate!

@Miguel - Perhaps your right, biut imo that whole take on it hinges on the AT being the reward. For it just seemed unsatisfying and as a parent, they forgot the kid, which just boggles my mind. Though, it may be jus tth enarrative and set up Ji Yeon for something in the next round of, really long game of mouse trap.

Trollonymous said...


the best grifters in this show are the individuals able to convince others that their decisions and actions are their own. Sawyer says as much when he talks about the differences between conning men and conning women. For about three seasons Ben was the master when it came to having people do his dirty work for him while thinking each plan was their own idea. In the end, the MiB has played both Sawyer and Ben and used them to skirt the famous loopholes. Ben almost has an excuse as he didn't know Locke's true identity but Sawyer has shown selflessness to be a virtue, con-men can ill afford.
As far as the MiB shooting Kate is concerned, I don't think so, I'm pretty sure he was in the water when that happened but if I'm right about Zoe, she may have shot Kate on instructions from the MiB in order to force Jack into the sub. Then again, where did Widmore get his marksmen from? The Imperial Deathstar? A lucky shot hits Kate in the shoulder but these Island stormtroopers cant hit the broadside of a Hurley?

Ji Yeon? We've got people calling Jin and Sun fringe characters but somehow their orphaned child is pivotal to the plot?

I can't believe no-one cares about Captain Falafel and the LawnMower Man. Jeez, that sounds like a Bob Dylan song if I ever heard one.

Kunal said...

Curt, you sound really different! What's up with your voice m8? I miss old Curt voice lol.

Nancy Drew said...

There's some very interesting reading to be found in the May 14th issue of Entertainment Weekly about Lost. It's not spoilerish (or at least, what I would consider spoilerish) and I thought it was great to see some "from the beginning" stuff.

Lost Lindsey said...

I need that EW!!!!

And I do not think Jin and Sun are fringe characters.

Trollonymous said...


You don't and I don't but the callous response to their deaths amongst many podcasting participants would suggest there is a split in the Lost community where Jin and Sun are concerned.

I think for many, familiarity breeds contempt and some of that can even be heard in this BRL pod.

Lost cannot be all things to everybody, some characters are going to die while others will survive, some people will be satisfied and others will be angry. How each viewer feels at the end of it all is what matters.

That's what great art does, it makes you feel something. The show and it's resolution may belong to everyone but how one feels about it belongs to the individual.

I'll need to lie down after that.

Curt said...

@Troll - That's exactly what I was trying talk about in the show. How the fandom treats this stuff. I, myself, have gone from thinking they were tertiary, to really elevating their importance, in the re-Watch. But now that they died, in an existential sense, what have they done? If we judge them on the sum of their actions, not so much as human beings, but their effect on our story line, it's questionable. Ji Yeon withstanding of course, which may be huge.

Trollonymous said...


don't judge them by their contribution to the plot, how can you when their recent participation has been so sparse?

Judge their worth as characters by how you felt when they died. As a parent, you said you weren't happy with Jin's actions due to his responsibility to Ji Yeon but just because her name wasn't mentioned doesn't mean she wasn't part of the decision's equation. Jin chose to stay with his doomed wife. He was consistent in this respect, he said they would never be apart again upon their reunion and a few seasons ago he uttered the famous phrase, "where Sun go , I go."

They both had a long time to ponder what each meant to the other so it's not as if Jin made an uninformed decision. So many armchair commentators used the term "meaninless deaths" together to describe the scene but few pondered the concept of a "meaningless life" apart.

In the end, Jin's decision, right or wrong, was his own and if it made viewers cry or made them angry then good, there's the meaning right there, especially when it obviously forced you to ask yourself, what would you have done?

I know the scene was robbed of it's power by the Alt timeline beflowered Jin walking down the hospital hallway, so the writers have some explaining to do. I just hope that alt timeline isn't some kind of cop-out or the last six seasons might be meaningless, let alone, character's deaths.

Btw, did anyone else think Sun's communication pad plot device was a screaming nod to The Stand's Nick Andros? She was doomed I tell ya.

Anonymous said...

I have been listening to your podcasts for the last year or so, ever since I discovered podcasting. Your discussions have really made me appreciate the show even more. I would like to add my two cents here. First of all, Jin and Sun did not die in vane. Their deaths are going to be just the beginning of our losties' deaths. It is their 'sacrifice', like Christian told Locke at the donkey wheel. I have never believed that MIB ever intended to leave the island...honestly, where would he go? I believe for him it is resetting the timeline. Home is his timeline and his time is getting short on the island to change the timeline and go home as I believe the boy we have seen so far (two times) is somehow related to his old timeline. He has appeared to be aging and I think that is what is aggitating MIB...he realizes his time is running out to change things and get home. He thinks he has been pulling a long con on Jacob, but I believe Jacob has been pulling an even longer con on MIB. If MIB does not go "home" this time, the loop starts all over.

As for Widmore, I beileve the whole blowing up the plane/sub was a ruse by Widmore to busy MIB while Widmore and perhaps Zoe escaped to the main island and find Desmond. Desmond is the key to the whole plan that Widmore has designed. He has to prevent MIB from escaping to his original timeline, because to do so would negate our current one and they would all cease to be. Jack is the candidate to make sure that Desmond gets the job done that he has been tasked to do. Jack will have to make a choice on who lives and who dies, like in his flashback, he had to choose between saving Sarah or Mr. Rutherford. As for all the other losties, I believe their ultimate sacrifice is that they will have to die. Kate will somehow play a pivotal role. All you Kate-lovers will be vindicated :-) The number 108 on the lighthouse dial is actually Desmond...Jacob hid his true identity.

The number three seemed to be so prominent and 'in-your-face' in the previous seasons, that I half expect there to be ANOTHER plane heading to the island, this time with the sideways "losties" on it. Cannot imagine how/why they could do that, but perhaps as they each regain awareness of the island timeline, they will know that is what they must do to preserve their timeline....this time it will be Kate saying "WE HAVE TO GO BACK!!!" She will still be trying to save Claire.

Several people have said they want to see the scene with the outrigger in the rain and who Juliet shoots. I believe she will shoot/kill Sawyer. It will be Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sawyer in the outrigger trying to take a shortcut to some other part of the island. I also think Juliet is the ex-wife of Jack in the sideways timeline. How fitting...Sawyer will end up with Jack's woman after all after they go for coffee. :-)

Well, that is all I have for now, probably too much, but just wanted to get it out there.

Really enjoy your podcast.