Monday, May 24, 2010

The End - Community Call

Black Rock LOST Podcast: Season 6 episode 16 of ABC's TV show, LOST. Curt, Dan, Nancy Drew, Lost Lindsey and our friends from the Smoke Hatch along with James. So, waking up in the ALT is the destination.

MP3

That's a wrap folks!

89 comments:

Nancy Drew said...

First comment!! WHOO HOO!!

Ok, first of all, I wasn't happy that my power went out at 2am and kicked me off the show!

Second, after sleeping on the thoughts of the finale, I woke up this morning (late this morning) to having the same opinion as last night. I liked what we saw until the last 15 minutes, but the part I liked was not FINALE material. I think they spent too much time on the "awakenings" and not enough in letting us learn about the one true character this whole story was about--the island! This should not have been a Jack story.

Miguel said...

I'm trying to be very positive since I'm a super LOSt fan, but its hard. The ending of the show just left me feeling like all our scientific theories were for nothing. Its like a giant elaborate hoax was made so Jack could change his ways and be redeemed. Please help me keep the faith.

Elijah said...

When I click the link, all i get is last week's show... is this just me?

Nancy Drew said...

I just listened to it and it's this current episode. It takes about 20 seconds for it to actually begin with audio after the Talkshoe intro.

warningtrax said...

@ Miguel

I hear you loud and clear. I’m all for a healthy dose of ambiguity which allows viewers a degree of interpretation. Completely abandoning several story lines and what appeared to be critical plot points, however, is entirely another matter. Yes, I appreciate the overarching redemptive story and theme. Still, I’m left with the feeling that only part of the story was told.

I find it hard to believe that the ALT purgatory was part of the endgame during the conception of this story. I’m inclined to think that the island was originally intended to be purgatory, as many speculated, but the writers backed off of that concept at a later time.

There’s just too many scenes, episodes and entire seasons rendered insignificant and meaningless by this finale.

Anonymous said...

I tried the link also and it is the last week's show still.

Anonymous said...

I tried the link also and it is the last week's show still.

Lost Lindsey said...

2am! how late did you guys go i need to catch up on it all

warningtrax said...

You can get the correct file via iTunes....Black Rock LOST Podcast - Curt Yanko - TV and Film. It's length is 3:50:29.

Miguel said...

It is last weeks episode. I was able to download the latest from the lost podcasting network at http://lostcasts.blogspot.com/

Man that beeping sound was like being at a blackrock rave.

Elijah said...

On iTunes, the link for "The End" is still connected to "What they died for"... but I was able to download this weeks podcast by downloading a "What they died for" community call that was posted today...

Nancy Drew said...

I have yet to watch any additional shows (like Kimmel) to see what answers have been given. I guess I just feel like it should have been given to us in the actual story.

Anonymous said...

The producers are smart. They also had years to prepare for this. So let's put ourselves in their shoes.

"Okay, we always knew we could never answer the numbers. But now the show is a pure jumble. What do we do? We must choose which fans to screw. We were always going to screw the mystery science geeks anyway."

"Remember, Jacob said we had a choice!"

JayJay said...

I loved seeing the fight scene of Locke & Jack on the cliffs, what would have made it better is, if the star wars soundtrack “duel of the fates” came on and light sabres were drawn. That would have been awesome.

After Jack had defeated Locke, and pushed him over the cliff, we flashed to the alternative time line, where Locke was waking up from surgery. As Jack looked down at him. I was sure MIB was going to come out and strangle Jack.

JayJay said...

After crying a river and having my heart strings tugged, I really didn't care about all the unanswered questions or the plot points that were left opened. I thought it was an awesome episode.

Kate redeemed herself in this episode.

The writters did a great job.

Emily said...

Thanks Elijah, I am trying that now myself as I am anxious to listen!

That worked, so yes on iTunes, the file from today labeled What They Died For is this weeks :)

marlene said...

I was afraid of the corny happily ever after ending and I braced myself for that (which is what I hated about the BSG ending). But instead I feel like I got to have my cake and eat it too on this one - because of the story being split in two. Yes, the reunions were sappy sentimental (my crying count was at least four) and there was silliness (an island plug, really?!) but at the same time it was much more than that. It had a nice dark twist with the group being dead in alternate time (made me think of the whispers) and it left questions and confusion which seems to be pissing people off - but I never wanted things tied up neatly.
Speaking of tying things up - you guys have to have at least one more podcast with your crew after mulling it over. Tuesday????!!!!

Curt said...

Sorry, fixed the link.

arturo said...

I think we need a new show called "The Island", which will pick up where Lost left. Will show who built all the caves, the temples and the statues, most important of all, who created the island, because the whole thing looks like a giant machine.

Anonymous said...

Good show or bad show... before anything else, I wanted to say THANKS to all the contributors on the Black Rock Podcast... I always found your podcasts thought provoking and definately one of the best from the many to choose - yours was my first choice. Thanks for all your time and dedication really helped me enjoy the show way more that I ever would have otherwise. Thank you.

Trollonymous said...

The producers don't have to be super smart, they just need to be a little bit smarter than most viewers. Not hard considering some of the subsequent comments around the community. I bet a great many of the answers demanded by desperate Lost fans will be found within the no-doubt prohibitively expensive box set of the series when it goes on sale. The metaphysical took precedence over the pseudo-science because the show had reached it's conclusion just like most of the characters' lives.

Much was left to the viewers'imagination both before the losties arrival and after their departure. Jacob was protector of the Island for almost 2000 linear years and during that time he thwarted all of his brother's plans for as long as he could. The stakes involved in protecting the Island were explained and re-iterated often. Through the centuries, people arrived on the Island, mostly by accident and were drawn to the EM deposits where they often set themselves to work. Some built a temple, some built a giant statue to appease a fertility god in the hope that forces (possibly EM energy)stunting reproduction could be banished. Some managed to enter the source to attempt to control it and judging by all the skeletons down there, they paid the price.Some built research facilities in order to conduct experiments in a unique environment while some chose to do the bidding of the Island's protector.
It all led to the finale's events in one of the longest tv cons ever.

There no doubt were any number of stories to be told about the various inhabitants of this Island over the millenia but the writers chose to focus on Jack and his pals in order to tell a story.

Were there plotholes? Yes. Abandoned storylines? Of course.
But does everything in your life make perfect sense? Have you never lost touch with old friends? Never given up on anything?
If the answer is no, then get your own self-help book started and send a free copy to Oprah because you are perfect.

I wasn't blown away but I was satisfied. Some people should concentrate on what the show gave us, not what it with-held. I'd rather be left wanting more than looking at the clock thinking, when is this show going to end?Answers were demanded and the biggest answer was given at the end and was hinted at during 'Recon' by none other than Little Joe Landon and his incredible hair.

He tells half-pint, "people aren't really gone once they die, and that you hold on to their good memories until you see them again."

The alt in a nutshell.

marlene said...

This podcast was difficult (and sad that it's the last one). I've never been one to be just a cheerleader of Lost but I felt joy and closure watching "The End." Sure, a whole slew of things were left unanswered but we always knew there would be mysteries left to chew on. That was part of the game. The only way of avoiding that, given how much they threw into the stew, would have been never to end it.

I think Lost as a story was in essence about community, love/hate, and redemption and those were resolved in spades (almost over-resolved!). And then they throw in adventure, humor, irony, a dark edge and a death twist. How is that cheating us? In the end I think it was a great ride with beautiful symmetry and it doesn't matter when they died. They died.

I think Lindsey should celebrate that, yes, it was Kate who killed the monster!

Mairuzu said...

K8F8

eddy said...

reposted from the FB page and more besides

hey amy, as always i think you speak wisely,,, and carry a big stick haha. i debate amongst myself... because there is more than one voice.. about the very points that people have been raising. maybe its telling that there are only a few posts to this discussion so far (pn FB anyways)

@jay jay - re MIB getting up from the surgery bed, i was totally there with ya

i am yet to rewatch it, and australia will get their free to air chance tmr, so these thoughts are still my initial thoughts.

yes the finale was more of a season 6 finale. it was trying to explain the storyline brought out by the season 6 narrative. what was the AT and what was its purpose. but it also should have been the culmination to many of the grand ideas that they decided to paint this universe with. as a series finale as well, especially on this show, it is the lens thru which we look thru the entire series. season 6 eyes, but more specifically series finale eyes. i do love lost but the finale has left me disappointed. maybe i wanted too much and my expectation were off in a different direction. but i think we had the proverbial Jacob rug pulled from under us.

it started off extremely well. i loved seeing the coffin view from the baggage car. some cheesy moments i could let go off because they pulled them off. it was even great to see how everyone could come back to be in the finale, Shannon for Sayid, Juliet for James. Rose and Bernard did their once a year appearance to tell us that yes, they are still on the island. i think since Hurley can make his own rules now, he may be able to heal Rose fully and she could leave.

i didnt see the end of the world scenario i predicted, but they did sorta turn out the light about midway. but what of it? it surely was not the end of the world. is this like the serpent during the temptation, when we have been all told that the llight goes out we're done! well surely the light didn't go out in all of us, and we did not all cease to be. the nightmare scenario did not present itself, was it because we were all in a long con... the audience. the old switcheroo.

end part 1

eddy said...

part 2

warningtrax mentioned that the original thoughts of the writers could have indeed been the Purgatory story, and they may have said to each other, we can do it better. but after hearing some of the fandom say that "i hope its not purgatory, cos that would suck. i hope they are not all dead" etc, they course corrected the story. but they had to come back to their core story. was the name Gary Troup all the way to the pilot a clue all along. the PURGATORY anagram is unconfirmed in lostpedia, but others are confirmed like Canton Rainier and Hoffs Drawlar.

the AT was presented to us with a momentum that seemed to escalate, there was danger ahead, time was of the essence (or is the essence ) and "they are not ready" seemed to carry more weight. but it was just to show them how to move on. i can see how it would apply to itself in the episode and abmye for the season but we are trying to tie up 6 season of storytelling here. i some of us feel like we put our coins into the vending machine, expecting a nice tasty Apollo bar, but we kinda did. we had to work at it. it just didnt drop and we collect. we had to turn the power off (in our minds) and maybe forget the little nitty gritty things, but that's what makes us lost fans, and they encouraged it too!

at the end of the day i will hold on to my dvds, rewatch them and even get the whole series too. but will any individual stories or main story arcs lose their appeal when i look at them thru finale eyes. maybe. but the show for the most part is still the best drama, best written show that has come along. Giacchino is a genius. i was more hooked for the mythology but love great storytelling and character development. i think this show had it all, but maybe on the mythology, the universe created, they have shown us that they are willing to drop major plot points into Dan's plot holes. we are left to fill in the pieces.

if the finale was the ultimate answer... then we have to build a machine to ask WTF was the F'n question?

this should not be a spoiler now, but in the scheme of things does it really matter ....so anyway, i heard what MIB's name on the call sheet was, but was still not revealed. which was silly cos it just made it even more stupid. i heard it was Samuel.

for a show that is now very meta, was it also preparing us to get to the point of letting go, and move on, as the final message to us fans.

damn and i was expecting the final scene to be:

Interior, cave.
Jack realises that he has saved his friends. He knows he can't get back to the top of the cave. so he resigns himself to his fate.

Exterior, cave.
We pull out of the cave and backwards, still focussing on the cave. camera stops. we see the mouth of the cave darken. we hear the familiar roar and tikka tikka. the smoke monster appears and fills the screen and we fade to black.... thud!

i reserve the right to contradict myself later and say Lost is the best show ever, finale included!

thanx guys

Hanover said...

Lost was about an Island so old that it got to a point that nobody knew where it came from or what the power source was. So how do you expect a character to waltz on the show and know everything to give us that information without it sounding cheesy?

The few times the producers attempted to do that, it DID sound cheesy. "Oh, so the Whispers are dead people?" I rolled my eyes a those parts because 1. It sounded cheesy and 2. I realized there were going to be whiners who wouldnt accept that as an answer.

Do we know exactly how the pyramids were built? Do we know anything about ancient civilizations beyond the chalk drawings on the wall? We certainly can make some guesses, but thats all we have.

Lost is just like in real life, not of all the mysteries can be solved. People take secrets to their grave and not all civilizations left notes, diagrams and journals in order to explain who they were.

People are protecting the Island and it's power source because of faith. Thats the central theme of the show. Do you think Mother knew what the power was? She certainly did explain it in the best way she knew how, but I doubt she could tell you the molecular structure and where it originated. So if them continued to try to answer things, the show would probably run another 20 years and you'd all still be asking WHY?

I don't feel cheated because I expected them not to be able to explain everything. I don't think it was ever set up to do that. I love the fact I can now go back to the beginning of the series, use everything I've learned and Lost almost becomes a new show.

I do believe that Lost follows a set of rules that the producers will not show us. I believe that once we figure out those rules, we can understand the island a bit better. Again, just in real life, Science is about figuring out the rules even if we don't absolutely understand where everything came from.

on another note...

In one of the episodes in season 6, Desmond's consciousness traveled between the Island and the "Sideways Universe." To me the sideways universe was a splintered universe created when the bomb went off. "Moving on" could be the way they had to close that universe. So it could represent both the afterlife and something scientific. That is very Donnie Darko-ish.

*m said...

I loved the finale. No we didn't get all the answers to all of the questions, but the show wasn't about what everything was, it was about the crash survivors of 815 and what happens TO them on this creepy and wierd island. It's not about the island, where it came from, who else is on it, why everyone's on it etc. Those things were explained only to the extent of how they AFFECTED our losties. How "mother" got there isn't important, who made the statue isn't either, what the others believed, who arranged the food drop, it goes on and on and on.

Only how those elements touched our losties lives were important. And if an answer was given to a mystery it was pretty straight forward.

I think people that enjoy weaving grand theories about the mythology were disappointed because they never liked the show about these people, they liked the mysteries about the island. I'm sorry if they spent six seasons watching a show hoping it was about something else, but it was about the losties experiences, not the minutae that affected them. It was about what happened to them and how they reacted in extreme experiences.

Okay guys. Thanks for the podcasts!

*m

j.w.b. said...

i would say that the cardinal rule of storytelling is to not invalidate the audiences trust by making it a dream.

as beautiful and lovely as the sideways world & reunions were, they were not in space or time as we know it. was it a dream? no. but was it close? maybe a little too close for me to be comfortable with.

i will admit i had hoped the flash was an epilog to the events on the island. and indeed, they played it that way for the first part of the episode.

it was the mere inclusion of jacks fathers line that they were all like him, dead, that broke it for me. in a show that left so much vague, to be specific on that was very disappointing. how much more lovely would the end be if it left that open, and the flash could be many things?

a happy ending? a return to the island? the beginning of this story, or another?

nope. none of those.

in the end i feel a bit cheated by the whole sideways world which we now see was a metaphysical no man's land. maybe i wouldnt be so disappointed if they hadnt made that world so wonderfully connected. i had finally come to a point of acceptance & true interest in that world, only to see all our characters pass on a second time.

that for me is what i feel cheated on. the rest, was a lovely & fitting journey.

the symmetry of jack's eye i saw coming as he stumbled along, but loved it all the same. hurley & ben taking over the island and going in a new direction. amazing!

the message that those you share the journey with are what matters was redeeming & true.

but all of it is uninteresting as i feel the emotional honesty & 'truth' of the story was violated by the dreamlike transformation of our good friends. i 'care' about our characters 'souls'. sure. but the trivia of ben & richard & miles after they got off the island is just trivial now.

at least at the moment.

maybe over time i will come to embrace this ending. and in fact, the 'events' that happened seem truly fitting and right for the series.

but at the moment i feel a bit betrayed and tricked.

and that leaves a bad taste.

sure relationships end, and there are moments of trouble in all things. but some acts of betrayal are harder to get over then others.

i dont feel i wasted 6 years. but i am disappointed by the choices of those i put my trust in.

as for the Black Rock Folk, i am more then a little sad to say farewell, but so happy to have been able to have the time to 'share' with everyone.

this was a strange and fun ride.

thanks for all your hard work!

peace & see you in another life
c

warningtrax said...

I think I may need to clarify some of my initial thoughts.

I don’t necessarily have an issue with the finale. Yes, I was entertained and the episode did provide closure to the main characters’ transformations. It was an articulate, moving redemption story repeated among the 815ers. As early as season one, I imagine nearly all viewers recognized exactly what Jacob did: these people are critically flawed. These flaws will either be their demise or the flaws will be overcome resulting in permanent change. I get it. I enjoyed it.

Yet, how many times were we shown, and expressly told by the writers, that the island is a character, too? Why do the constructs of storytelling not apply here?

To me, the mysteries of the island sat at the crux of the science vs. faith theme that wove its way throughout this story since the beginning. This theme allowed the writers to continually amaze the viewers with glimpses into the scientific, pseudoscientific and metaphysical unknown. This theme provided the trials that our characters needed to overcome. This theme was expertly personified through Jack and John and, as we finally witnessed, faith won.

What we didn’t see, though, is HOW faith won and science lost. I truly believe that storytelling time dedicated to entertainingly paying off some of these island mysteries could have further punctuated the redemption story as well added depth to the island mythology. Although I understand that “high concept” is simply another means to an end, the concept still needs to be paid off. There’s a growing list of inconsistencies and unexplained actions and events that is sadly turning what I once thought was a tightly woven story into a much looser pile of threads.

Taking a long look back, it’s hard not to say that LOST has been the best television had to offer for the past six years. Daring and groundbreaking, LOST has set a new standard. The question now is: will another show follow in it’s footsteps and take us even further?

eddy said...

hey warningtrax, as always i have enjoyed what you have to say.

in Lost fashion, i guess its true that "the heart wants what the heart wants". maybe i don't know what my heart wants.

and yes, it could be from what angle/bearing you arrived at being a Lost fan. a character study, a redemption story, a mystery, a sci fi metaphysical science v faith debate. a love story. this may determine your take on the finale. all these are the various threads that the writers have worked with. and they have always said that Lost is a show about the characters, right? but set in this environment where "miracles happen". so we have our fantastical elements, our pseudo science, our magic.

jacob brought these people there. people whom he thought would be the best candidate. not perfect people or well adjusted people. but flawed. that was one of the presiding factors in choosing them. so that they would need the island as much as it needs them. and he set up his rules. that does not mean that he had the best rules. and the rules were used to explain various things.

should lost have been JUST about people and their individual story arcs and their journey towards redemption and/or realising that they cannot change their ways? in the traditional man v nature, man v environment story, its really about the person and their journey. but i think our environment - the island - our nature - the scale and the light - are elements introduced to the Lost story that has just about equal weight, or have i got it wrong. the island as a character that never really came to fruition....

at the end of the day, should we throw baby jacob out with the bath water? no. do i feel like i've wasted 6 years of my life. no. within the show, it is still is one of the best shows, best actors, best music, that i have come across, and out side of the show, i have gotten to know great friends, known a community of fans, though passionate and disparate in views are still one of the best out there.

warningtrax said...

Thanks, Eddy. I’m going to miss your posts.

I guess I’m trying to whine as articulately as possible. LOST is over. Merely the thought of the fall network line-up may swear me off television for good. 17 cop shows, 9 medical dramas, throw in a few lawyers and some goofy housewives and boil it all in a pot of more reality TV than any human being could possibly stand and we’re ready to dive headlong into sweeps week.

More than anything, I’m a sucker for the serial. I don’t need a beginning, middle and end every week. I don’t need straight exposition to tell me what’s going on. I just need a compelling, ever-changing, thought provoking journey that is, above all, well told when everything is said and done.

I was hooked on LOST at the first commercial break of The Pilot...and I KNEW it right then and there. I’ll keep both the baby and the bath water.....

Ryan said...

To balance things out for myself here is what I perceive as the more negative aspects of the series overall:

I think the producers this last season were being a bit disingenuous when saying this season would be about and the show's overall success was about the characters. It's clearly not just that but these characters in this situation on the island and all that accompanies it. If it was only the characters then that show would never have made it to screen or be quickly canceled. To say they cared to reveal what is important to the characters is also a dodge because they write what the characters care about and they clearly didn't address or skimmed over things that the characters did care about over the run of the show.

I also think that quite a bit of the side stories got shuffled. The story of the Others and Dharma I think must have been different at one point. The Others may have be meant to be the hillbillies all the time while Dharma was still on the island at the same time or Dharma was an offshoot group of the Others. Why after Dharma is wiped out would Kelvin and Radzinski still be in the hatch almost 10 years later if all the other Dharma gone? Why would they get Dharma food drops years after they were purged? The fact that they never revealed this information makes me think they couldn't because it'd reveal the original intent. As we saw the Others were in many respects Dharma because they had people, companies and finances around the world with Ben, Richard and Friendly among them who went off the island. In fact this is exactly what Widmore had been doing for years but he apparently got banned for it. Add to that the fact that Widmore had Penny some 20 years before he did get expelled makes the whole Dharma and Others story quite murky. It seems more like Widmore would be a Dharma founder in the first place and try to exploit the island and lead a splinter group until he was removed and then Ben took the bits of Dharma he liked forward but abandoned the rest.

The same goes for the whispers which were as revealed by a writer on the first season that they were in fact the Others who at that time were more supernatural in nature (witness the first appearance by Ethan). The whole Ethan was the surgeon certainly seemed a thrown-in just like his origin last season as Horace's son.

It seems too that a lot of Dharma material was dropped once they got the end date. Yes they went to Dharma times but we really learned precious little about then except that they were pretty clueless. All the stuff about "Don't use the computer for anything else", the dating of the incident and the way it played out as hinted before doesn't really connect that well with what we actually saw.

Ryan said...

The Cabin mystery doesn't seem to really be that coherent. Listening to the commentary you notice all the things that they dropped like Annie, a possible volcano and Olivia Goodspeed. You really wonder how to reconcile Ben now saying he never saw Jacob. That is lying beyond all belief! He specifically says Jacob doesn't like technology, Locke puts the flashlight on and everything in the cabin goes crazy. Ben's being thrown around when Locke is just trying to just get out of there and Ben's still talking to the chair like he sees someone in it. They also commented that the ash was like a stand-off between Ben and Jacob. Maybe it was supposed to be and maybe it wasn't. The impression given is that Ben did see Jacob and was scared when Locke could see him too and so his leadership was threatened. It can also be read that they both saw him but Ben didn't hear the "Help me".

Then of course that Jacob appeared again with Christian. So was it Jacob or MIB? It didn't look like the Jacob we know but that could simply be casting. The point is was he meant to be Jacob or not? Why the cabin that Horace built? It could have been there for 30 years but since Horace was only killed in '92 did Jacob just timeshare with Horace and they exchanged week-ends?

If it was MIB how did he get past the ash? This leads to the whole thing about the ash and sonic fences. If Dharma were always an offshoot of the Others then their defence against the Monster makes more sense because other ways did Dharma just luck into that? The there is Ben's supposed Monster summoner. Who gave it to him and isn't it a bit weird that Richard knew the Black Smoke was Jacob's enemy but that Ben had a hotline to it?

Hanover said...

"The there is Ben's supposed Monster summoner. Who gave it to him and isn't it a bit weird that Richard knew the Black Smoke was Jacob's enemy but that Ben had a hotline to it?"

Because Ben was being played by Smokey at times when Ben thought he was communicating with Jacob.

I understood that as soon as I realized just how manipulative MIB was with our Losties. Ben didnt realize Smokey was connected to the MIB...for all he knew Jacob was controlling smokey and gave him access to it.

Ryan said...

Hanover,

That almost works except that Ben never saw Jacob and his communication was the lists through Richard.

Any thoughts?

Ryan said...

My take on the finale ending.

Actually I think that a lot of it hangs together well for me after one viewing.

Christian says something like "This is the place you made to find each other"

The Incident did create this new world by interacting with the light of the island. To find each other they had to be somewhere that they could get together. The belief of those at the incident was that they would land at LAX if it worked and so they did... but with a few changes that would allow them to find each other without it being more difficult than it had to be.

Trying to put a time context on it is meaningless. They all get their after they have died in the other "real" world. The reason all the events start after the plane lands is because it was on the plane that they converged in the first place.

In this new world they sort of get what they wanted to one degree or another but people don't always know exactly what they want and so Des wants Widmore's approval but that didn't automatically lead to getting Penny. Locke wanted his father and Helen, Kate wanted to be innocent of her crime and in this world she probably was BUT in all cases to find each other they couldn't be so completely different from the people that they knew each other as and as they were on the plane so she still had to be caught and on the plane.

They were now all living and congregating in L.A. in placement of the island. There couldn't be an island in this world to land on. It's the memory of the island and what happened there that was the thing they had to reconcile to. To this end the island was destroyed because if it hadn't been then it would still have influence over their lives. It would still effect Ben, Alex, Rousseau, Widmore, Hawking, Charlotte and Miles if no one else if it still was a factor.

In this world where they lead similar lives they come together and find each other so that they can let go and move on. Not everyone can do that. Some aren't ready like Ana, others like Ben still have to work things out.

The question is the other world independent of the Losties save for their particular lives or is it only for their benefit? What happens to Jack's son? It seems that he never really existed which means that this world isn't real or is it real save for the things that matter to the Losties which it contains?

David exists because Jack needed him to but once he doesn't need him then he won't anymore? Are Alex and Rousseau the real people who will be awakened one day?

The question of whether this world is physically real or just a dream is the question. What if it's both though? It is a real place when you're in it but when you're ready to move on then it isn't real to you anymore as so you must leave.

j.w.b. said...

PART I

i think it took some working, and i needed an angle/perspective at which to view the end.

it took re-listening to the podcast (thanks by the way everyone) and it wasnt until member309s view of jack being the main charcter of the series did i finally start to make some sense of things.

i agree with curt, i don't like it, but i am starting to come around to being able to view the series that way.

i was definitely bothered by the ending of the episode. i was enjoying the ride all the way until we came to the church.

i felt it was a huge violation in that the sideways world was essentially a dream narratively speaking. it wasn't real. any metaphysical no man's land is equal to cheating as far as writing goes. its an easy way out, and invalidates the emotional truth of the audience and characters.

so, i took a lot of thought as worked past that anger.

the on island events i accepted and found poetic. the eye closing was obvious when it came to pass, but wonderful none the less. i was too busy being bothered by the sideways actions to be much moved though.

until i heard the perspective that this was all jack's story.

not that the series was a fantasy before death, or even that the sideways was a flash at the moment of death. but that the narrative we followed for so long was ABOUT JACK.

yeah. we've heard characters mention this before, like, ITS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU JACK, or, ITS GOING TO BE YOU JACK. but it was in the context of a character driven ensemble show. now it seems what we've really been watching was one characters journey.

i may not like that fact, but it does seem consistent. and it was that structure i think i was lacking when i first watched the finale.

i was so caught up in the theories and possibilities that i was very underwhelmed. i thought the well looked like something from the goonies and the styrofoam rocks falling around the island made me laugh. but turning to the afterlife in the final minutes broke my spirit. i was invested in the characters LIVES, not their SOULS. it was not purgatory we were told. and as such, the real world is what mattered.

and as said, i was alright with what happened.

now, looking at the series as one man's story, i can reflect and really gage where everything fits.

j.w.b. said...

PART II

the LORD of the RINGS is frodos story. there are amazing characters that influence, guide, aid, and try to thwart frodo on his ultimate mission, but in the end, that story is HIS.

thats not to say we don't diverge with gandolf, or aragon. and that their fates are not important to us. but the arch of the story is told in classical hero cycles as one characters journey.

and i think finally i see that.

LOST had so many balls in the air, or, avenues they could go down, that we were all left pondering what was next. i certainly didnt think it was JACK's story. not his alone.

but we knew we had watched something for six seasons and were going into the FINALE expecting to get something. a guidepost, an answer, a reason.

i think we got all of the above. we got the key to understanding the series, if not the events.

there are so many open questions it boggles the mind! it angers me even. so many threads i want to see tied up.

but in making it jacks story, those threads become just trivia. side bars for fun.

the main action/story/event of the arch we watched WAS one man's journey to save the island.

i hate to even say that, as it seems to invalidate so much. but it is what seems, upon some reflection, to be the STORY we were watching.

again, let me say, this isn't what I WANT. i wanted locke's return & redemption. i wanted that sideways to be an epilog in which everyone did get some rewards for all the suffering they went through FOR the island. i wanted MIB to have some greater consequences then the classic LOST shot in the back.

but those weren't the STORY they were telling. they were telling this one.

i wanted more. i felt a huge sense of disappointment and betrayal when the episode ended. i wanted something else and coudnt fathom how all that even fit.

now i think i at least have a framework to at least hang the story on.

i still have my doubts, and concerns, but at least feel i have a way forward.

just wanted to put this up as it meant a lot to me to find a way to enjoy what we just saw.

good luck everyone. this has been a challenging and amazing journey.

Dole said...

I'm listening to the podcast for the first time, and I'm about 3:08 in, and don't worry about a thing Amy. I also feel cheated. I felt smacked and insulted immediately after the finale.

I'm a recent Lost fanatic, I was turned on to the show by a friend who showed me the pilot ep during the season 5-6 hiatus. My wife and I watched them all in more or less rapid succession.

To find out that the show pretty much mirrored "The Dark Tower" in that the show is going to tease you with this terribly interesting universe, tickle me with all this mythology and history, only to never revisit or explain any of it was to me like getting hit in the face.

That was my initial reaction. Having some time now to think about it - I'm going to rewatch the series as a whole farther down the line, and I should be able to adjust my expectations. I shoudl have known based on how season 6 went that we just weren't gonna get the deep mysteries.

It was a story about the people in it, not a story about the cool awesome island and what happened to it/where it came from.

Smugglinghams said...

I agree 108% with the way Nancy Drew feels about LOST. I was beyond disappointed with the finale. Had I known they weren’t going to answer any of the “real” questions I would have stopped watching a long time ago. Did I enjoy the show? Yes, but I enjoyed it because I was under the impression that many of the mysteries would tie together and we would see the bigger puzzle. Maybe not all the pieces but at least a good chunk of them.
I would not have been angry to find out my theories were all completely wrong, if anything it would have been eye opening and exciting to see where I was wrong and then go back to fit the pieces together again. Many people are saying that Darlton did this for the viewer to make up their own interpretation. That is nonsense. We can interpret only when we have something solid to base it on. For example in Pulp Fiction what was in the suitcase? Well the story gives us enough clues to guess maybe a soul? Money? Drugs? Toni Morrison’s “Jazz”- who was the narrator the whole time? An omniscient narrator? Someone we haven’t met? The book itself? In either case the base of the story allows us to interpret different aspects. LOST had no base it was just mystery upon mystery with no answer which is first off lousy storytelling and secondly how can we interpret that? It only leads to arguments not discussions because there is no basis for many of the mysteries. For all that I know the island could have unleashed the Smurfs. Go ahead and try to discredit that theory. You can’t because there is no basis for or against it. This show was like an artist selling you a painting of a triangle, circle and square for $20,000 and saying if you don’t understand it or can’t find meaning then you must be an idiot. Most of us would look at that painting and say it’s a triangle, circle and square it means nothing. Well LOST did the same only they made it the temple, the island and Jacob’s Cabin.
Finally I would like a lot of the other podcasters to stop drinking the Kool-aid. We have to admit when the show was bad. I watched it from day 1 and now I feel like I was sucker punched, but I admit it. I heard a pod cast (will remain unnamed) who said earlier in season 6 that if Smokey escaping the island is just him getting on a boat and not something more special, than that will be dumb and feel cheap. After it turned out that was pretty much how Smokey wanted to leave the island the podcaster somehow magically forgot what he said and he was again praising the show. As great as the arc of the flash sideways was and I did enjoy the fact that it was Limbo and they all met and were happy. But you know what I enjoyed more? Seasons 1-5 where they were stuck on a mysterious island. The flash sideways was 1/12 of the show and also thrown in at the last season, but many pod casters are saying what a great part it was. Really? It was 1/12 of the show and it was thrown in there pretty much to give us a happy ending and make some of us oblivious to the fact that they disregarded the other 11/12 of the show. Will I go back and watch LOST again? Probably not. I guess the worst part is I really enjoyed the community that made this show and I enjoyed hoping to find out who was right in their theories and then going back and interpreting those mysteries that were left unanswered. Instead we’re left with a show that gave us nothing for answers. From this day forth when someone asks what was LOST about I will say “Smurfs”. My fellow Losties I enjoyed the ride but hated the destination

Mairuzu said...

So... anyone think ABC will force there to be a spinoff or a movie to appease the viewers, where sense will be made of many of the details?

Really.. what was the point of Alana? What about Aaron? Walt? What WAS the connection between reality and the alt timeline (ie purgatory, dreamworld, whatever)? Why did Juliet's dead corpse tell Miles that what they did worked? Why were elements introduced as tangibly critical to the story and then immediately discarded or forgotten?

The more I mull over the ending, the less and less I like it. I know some folks are saying that it was 'beautiful' the way it ended on Jack's closed eye and a mirror of the opening scene from the pilot.. but it struck me as particularly creepy and morbid. It felt like Jack was rolling back into his grave. I didn't get any sense of comfort from that and I didn't think it was touching--it struck me as morbid and creepy, far from artsy or appropriate (Seriously? It's not particularly creative.)

At this moment, I feel that I was emotionally wounded and they couldn't even have the decency to wrap things up in a particularly clever way. Even worse, you might even argue that they tried to make the show a case of "the ends justify the means" in many ways.

I think I need more time to digest things. At first it struck me as an okay ending, but the more I think on it, the more I feel increasingly disappointed and insulted with the ending on emotional and intellectual levels.

Mairuzu said...

Also...

Smugglinghams++

PRECISELY my sentiment at the moment. I think the Lost community made the show far better for me than the show itself did, given the way it ended. I mean--they effectively invalidated much of the show. It's like someone telling you they bought you a gift.. but you will never see it. It might as well not even exist... but they were ass**** enough to tell you about it.

On the flip side, if there's anything we can take away from this show, it's at least the show which brought out some of the best, smartest people who came together to talk about it--and there's nothing to regret there, at least. The community should get together to do more things--but I feel like the writers really abused their characters and their audience with this one. I feel as though they were less interested in telling a satisfyingly good long story and instead got an erection on making sure people felt emotionally ruined at the end and cheated out of an actual solid storyline.

Lost Lindsey said...

I'm going to say something very strange for me. I agree with Dan, mainly on his last post that the Lost community made the show far better for me than the show itself did. This show was one in a million with its community. we disected, turned over and obsessed over things. I still like the ending, but the ending is more meaningful when discussed with Lost fans.

Ryan said...

I can understand a lot of frustration out there I feel it too but not to the same degree.

It's like there was a promise of a grand mosaic much like a jigsaw puzzle locking together. In the end we didn't get all the pieces and we're told to make our own pieces to finish it off but that just makes it a facsimile of the real thing. We're not even really sure if the makers of the puzzle ever actually finished it or gave up because they couldn't make it work themselves.

Trollonymous said...

Mairuzu,
how did they invalidate much of the show?

As for Juliette, she did not say that Jack's plan specifically worked, she simply said "it worked". She also said let's go dutch. I take it that she is foreshadowing her alt-time conversation with Sawyer, where she recommends re-setting the vending machine's power to get the Apollo bar to drop."It worked".

I don't think this is an example of the writers misleading the audience or discarding critical elements. This is simply a misinterpretation on the part of yourself, and many others. Plenty of people correctly predicted the location of the let's go dutch line in the Alt timeline but refused to do the same for the "it worked" line.
It's a bit much for viewers to be upset that they were wrong to take the words of a critically injured, delirious character as gospel.

Pointing out plotholes is all well and good but it's grossly unfair to the writers to fabricate problems just to justify one's disappointment.

*m said...

*Thoughts about The End pt 1*

Again, thanks for offering up the Black Rock podcast for us to enjoy.

I found that just as you guys could never agree with each other re: a single show, I could not agree with every one of you all of the time. Sometimes, Nancy Drew seemed most logical, other times it was Dan, but ultimately I agree with Lindsey, because I loved the finale. And after all is said and done. At least it wasn't all a matrix dream place. :P

Okay so I've been mulling the finale around in my head and have come up with some thoughts. They're rambly, but make sense to me. Hopefully they'll make sense to you too.

Again, much love and thanks for all the podcasts.

*m

*m said...

*Thoughts about The End pt 2"

*The Island was real. The Losties crashed there and survived there on that creepy island for the duration of what we saw take place there. It happened. No we're not going to get the answers to so many of the elements that added to their island experiences, but like real life, you don't get all the answers. I thought I'd care more about not getting the answers, but I don't.

*What we formerly chalked up as an appendix scar on Jack in the Flash sideways, was really the echo, if you will of the stab wound Smoky gave him, that caused his death. Just as you had people that didn't exist in the REAL/Island timeline (see David, Nadia's children) the wound wasn't real, but another way to help the Losties work through their baggage so that they could move on. They had to accept what happened, instead of dwelling on it, and then move on.

*David was Jack. David was his way of accepting his crappy father, of loving himself as an emotional and frustrating grumpy boy and in turn be a better father to himself than he had. The connection to Juliet seemed to be because of the guilt he had for killing Juliet with Jughead and also because they seemed so similar and likely to be romantically involved at some point.

*Nadia was married to Sayid's brother and was mother to imaginary children because Sayid could never have her. He didn't feel he deserved her because of all of the atrocities he had committed and consequently felt like an evil unloveable monster. His relationship with Shannon on island was so devoid of off island influences and purely loving so it makes sense that they'd connect again in the FS world they created. It was probably the healthiest relationship they'd each ever had.

*Claire gave birth to Aaron in the FS because of the connection she lost to her son in the real world. It messed her up to lose and live without him those three years on the island. Especially right after Charlie died and also without the friends who abandoned her.

*Jacob and MIB wouldn't be in the Flash Sideways because it was constructed by the Losties for the Losties. They didn't ultimately care about Jacob and MIB's "stuff". They only cared about their experiences with each other on the island and their baggage before the island.

*I think that Michael's presence on the island is self-imposed, like all of the ghosts there. They're not ready to move on from their suffering on the island just as Ben isn't ready to move on from the "waiting room" before the light with everyone in the church. Hopefully he'll forgive himself and let himself leave.



*The Flash Sideways was constructed by our Losties so that they could be together and move on together. Like Christian said, it happens "outside" of time so it's not weird that some people died in 2004 and others much later, like Hurley and Ben, and they can all be there at the same moment/place. I think the FS is a shared psychological spiritual experience after the Losties deaths, but before their transfer "to" the light, which is the real hereafter/heaven/one with the universe energy absorbtion, etc. For us, it's merely a plot device in season six. For them it's where they go after they die. I like that it tells us that the Losties meant so much to each other and will be together likely forever. It doesn't negate their individual experiences on the island, before the island or after the island. It's just a conclusion to the stories of these survivors of a plane crash that we've chosen to watch. No we don't get the "after the ajira six land" story or the Hurley and Ben rule the island story, but I don't really care. That's not the show or story we've been watching for six seasons. Our Losties are done.

arturo said...

I like the idea that they actually created our world. The world we are living in, which means that the world we are living is not real, and who knows what is real and what is not. Maybe we are all here on earth in that world.

Nancy Drew said...

Dan, I love what you put into words here because it's so true. Without having THIS--the connections with other Lost fans, the podcasts, the blog, Lostaholics, etc..--I probably wouldn't have stuck with it so faithfully. That's not to say that I would have stopped watching, but I wouldn't have turned the ringer off on my phone during it, haha!

I'm not bitter about the ending, but it's still not sitting well with me. The problem is that I don't think the producers anticipated the left-over mysteries to end up pushing some of us away from the concept of Lost. I think they thought it would keep us theorizing about it. I have talked with a lot of Lost fans in the last few days and I can definitely see where that plan backfired because some have gotten to the point where they don't care any more and I don't blame them.

There are tons of things I will miss with this show being gone, but actually there are a few things about it that won't be missed. I do know, though, that because I ended up leaving due to a power outage, there were a few things that I didn't get to say.

Curt, THANK YOU for coming to Lostaholics and inviting us to become part of the partnership with Black Rock. I have thoroughly enjoyed getting to know you and appreciate everything you have taught me in podcasting, technology, and latin pronunciations :) I was actually sad today when I realized that I will have to sit through a Sunday night without talking to you, Dan, James, and Lindsey. You are not allowed to be a stranger, eh! Keep in touch, dOn'tchya knOw!

Dan, THANK YOU for all the giggles, snickers, and sound effects training :) I loved the late night talks about everything and nothing and always hearing about sci-fi shows that I should watch or comparing the ones we had already seen. One day, when you finally get to take the Beetle on that road trip excursion, you had better just count on having to add Hudson to your list of destinations! We have to see once and for all which us 36 yr. olds looks younger, haha!

Lindsey, THANK YOU for always keeping me on my toes and showing me that opposition is the spice of a discussion :) I really loved some of our debates and loved it even more when we found a common ground to agree on. I have had a great time getting to know you and hope to continue to stay in touch in times to come. You might have that spit-fire nature, but you've also got a heart of gold.

James, THANK YOU for always bringing an original perspective to our discussions. I think you have excellent creativity and I it showed in your theories and real-life parallels in mythology and symbolism. I usually left podcasts feeling like I wanted to spend hours and hours looking up facts you had brought up in hopes of being able to keep up with the roads you took us down. You helped all of us see outside-of-the-box at times when the show wasn't throwing us a bone.

Matt, THANK YOU for always popping in to add to our discussions on the show. If you ever come and tour the Leinie brewery, look me up :) We'll go have a Berry Weiss or something, LOL!

I'm truly going to miss the regular schedule of chatting with you guys. Curt, if you ever decide to do that technology podcast and need to show an example of a technological dummy, let me know. I'm sure I'll be available, haha!

~Nancy Drew

Eric Weissen said...

Curt, Lindsey, Dan, Nancy,

Thank you so much you made ths show enjoyable. In fact I enjoyed some of your podcasts more than I did the show at times.

I enjoyed the aspects of mythology that you brought to the discussion, thoroughly engaging.

So after not having any expectations or selfish desire to see something in particular I am extremely disappointed with the ending.

It smells of a script that people had figured out so they took us for detours to confuse us and take us off track. I mean most people guessed right during the first season.

So many elements introduced and left unresolved, extremely poor! Also it just backs up what everyone said to me when criticising the show and that is "this is taking too long, why are they still on that damn island".

They dragged it out so much! I'm selling my season 1 and 2 box sets and if I watch it again I will only watch seasons 1 - 5.

One watch to enjoy and an average of an additional 2 views per episode trying to figure out this show means alot of time spent trying to figure out what I felt was a complex and ground breaking show.

Great podcast poor show.

Well it ended very badly.

Miguel said...

The emotional part of the finale was fulfilling but the mythological part was empty. I look forward to getting some of those questions answered on the DVD extras. This finale episode this raise some new questions.
Where the characters talking about the real world or this purgatory world when they would talk about saving the world or seized to exist? I guess through the island they were able to go to this purgatory world and that’s what they were saving, not saving the actual planet.
MIB turned in to a regular man and now he was able to get off the island. Why would this cause such a big destruction? I wish they could have answered this question. A possible answered might be that in order for him to get off the island he has to be a man causing the island to sink. The real world will not be destroyed if the island sinks so MIB can go live his existence. What does end up being destroyed is the purgatory world. The trapped souls on the island have to go somewhere, so they go to this purgatory world and cause chaos to the people that were trying to redeem themselves. Another possibility is that they end up in this purgatory world but things aren’t as happy as they were and no one can move on to the light since it was turned off. They will be stuck in this sad purgatory world for eternity. Maybe they did save us all. When we all die we will go in to this purgatory world and when we are ready we will be able to walk in to the light and go home. Thanks Jack

buzmeg said...

To all the naysayers. It all boils down to the fact that the folks who are dissatisfied with the ending of ‘Lost’ seem to be those who were in it for the wrong reasons. They wanted all the answers, when in fact the series was never about “all the answers” in the first place. It was about the characters.

The last 10 minutes of the finale, which I’ve watched about 20 times, was the most poignant piece of television viewing I have ever experienced.

Trollonymous said...

@Miguel,

were you watching the same show I was?

Curt has put some Lost news links on the side bar of the BP homepage you really should check out.

Try the link to EW's assessment and it may explain things to you. I also thought the jezebel.com's Lost recap nailed the concepts a long time ago but had the worlds switched about. Their recap of the End is very good.

Ashley said...

I think the finale was the biggest magic trick ever.
All of a sudden the focus was on the resolution of the side-flashes... as if that was the big answer we were all waiting for after 6 years??!?!? It wasnt.
It was a resolution for season 6 alone but we never found out the big questions. (Forget the little ones). THE BIG QUESTIONS.
What was the reason for the island.
What was the greater meaning to all their struggle. What did it all mean.
They presented this as a science fiction but in all essence they dug themselves out with magic and fairy tales. They made rules as they went along to fill gaps. And at the very least they could have had some greater meaning to the story. Some mythology. What did Jacob, smoke monster and the island represent.

Eric Weissen said...

Ashley,

I agree with your points.

I was going to force myself to like this finale like it was a poor cd that I purchased from my favourite artist! Then I thought, no I shouldn't have to.

Any way just sold my complete season 1 boxset and complete season 2 is on Ebay.

Just glad that I didn't pre order the all season boxset.

Black Rock Rocks!

Mairuzu said...

@BuzzMeg: To all the naysayer naysayers, it all boils down to the fact that the folks who are dissatisfied with the ending of "Lost" seem to be those who were led to believe that there would be answers to the story arc and a satisfying resolution. We still don't understand the significance of the Island--which, by the way, has been treated like a main character all along the way. We still don't know why Alana was so damned important. We're still left wondering why it was so heroic to prevent MiB from leaving the island. Hell, to that end, we STILL don't even know the answer to "what they all died for." Ultimately, when people ask for "what the heck is the point of this show?" We don't really have an answer and the pretentious canned answer has repeatedly been, "It's a character-driven show. It's about the characters." As if the setting, numbers, Island and everything the characters ever interacted with aren't a part of the story.

I think Ashley hit it on the head precisely. The show, ultimately, is a joke without a punchline.

Mairuzu said...

Also, to Eric, Eddy, Amy and everyone else that has said as much, thanks to YOU folks for listening and keeping in touch and talking. What's a podcast without an audience and feedback? It's me... Talking to myself with a microphone... Which is actually pretty amusing--BUT I DIGRESS! Thank YOU! :)

Also--watch out for them plot holes as you drive around looking for new shows. heheh

warningtrax said...

At a gathering over the weekend a fellow LOST fan asked how I liked the finale. I explained it wasn’t the finale that disappointed me so much, it was the season as a whole that neglected to solidify what we’ve seen thus far into a cohesive story. She countered that she loved it all, and she shot me an unmistakable look. This look on her face conveyed exactly what I’ve heard on other podcasts and read on many posts. I recognize pity when I see, read and hear it. Yes, pity.

I find it amusing that many of those who enjoyed the ending of this story feel sorry for us poor souls who simply don’t understand.

I explained that even if the writers had this great ending in their hip pocket years ago, I chose to pay attention to everything they wrote prior to us getting there. They didn’t.

Still, I really liked the ending of this story....but we’re still missing about 8 chapters. Oddly, I thought Stranger in a Strange Land was a complete waste. It turns out that it was the most prescient episode of the series.

Trollonymous said...

@Mairuzu, you're all over the place,I'm sorry, but I don't buy this, "The Island is the main character" argument. The Island is a setting. Characters interact with one another and the setting.

How is calling LOST a character driven show, pretentious?

What is it without the characters?

Mairuzu said...

Well, if the island isn't a character, then why does the island choose things, have control over lives and destiny, and need protecting? They treat it as a character, in a literate sense, with a history and with what seems to be its own choice and/or destiny.

Calling Lost a "character-driven show" as a way to dismiss the questions being asked is pretentious. Simply stating that it's character-driven isn't the issue so much as the way it's used as a way to wave away the criticisms.

To that point, what was Lost without the island? The show, and the characters, would have been a lot less interesting without the island.

Eric Weissen said...

Mairuzu,

Buddy, thank you for the honourable (English Spelling) mention.

I think that your last post nailed it!

Trollonymous said...

Sorry Dan, but I'm not as easily convinced as Eric, although I think you're preaching to the choir there.

You can anthropomorphize the Island all you want but that does not change it from a setting to a character.

And if it is a character then why do you believe the writers haven't told you what they died for. By your definition they died in order to protect one character from another.

If you want pretense, look no further than bestowing sentience upon a land mass without any evidence.

Never mind what 'they' died for, I'm starting to wonder what a lot of people 'watched' for.

Curt said...

My last post on this. I am in fact over it and have moved on but in the interest of a little closure...

I get it and all but... did it add to anything? ..enhance or improve upon the things we've seen already? No.

And by that I mean, after Season 5 we did our reWatch, and it was great. Earlier episodes had new meaning, or so it seemed, in the context of building toward the big mystery. We once again plumbed the depths of what the show had to offer. But now... that we know how it ends, I can't say as I think a reWatch would be interesting. I feel like whole swaths of the narrative have been marginalized.

To say it is *character driven* is writing 101 imo, that what all stories are supposed to be. This show hooked because it seemed like there was so much more. The mystery is what propelled this show to the next level, the production level, rich in detail drew us all in. Then they reached through the 4th wall and slapped us all.

So now, it's not all about bunnies, the philosophers don't matter much or other literary references, they were just fun anecdotes by the writing team. It was just about one of our heroes, Jack, learning to let go so he could prove his dad wrong and *have what it takes* (not that he didn't have it already mind you)

Had timeline A created timeline B which created timeline A... then we'd have a story. If Ji Yeon or Aaron proved important, then there'd be meaning to Sun and Jin, Kate and Claire. And on and on...

I don't feel the need to be included with the cool kids that *get it* not that anyone had offered up the connection of the over-arching narrative yet. It just goes from simple to simpler (It's the characters, to it's Jack's story?). No one needs to *feel sorry* for me either, I'm good, thanks.

A great show, some of the best hours of TV in history but in the end, they took the safest possible route and really dropped the narrative ball. They defended the Island, yeah.

RachelB said...

Thanks to the Black Rock LOST Podcast crew for all the hours of enjoyment. By the time the finale rolled around I was subscribing to about 50 podcasts, but yours was the one I always listened to first.

I've been a dedicated follower of LOST since the pilot episode, but at some point between Seasons 5 and 6, I came to realize that the podcasts had become more fulfilling to me than the show itself. The fan community felt like people I'd known all my life. The thought of not hearing your voices again makes me very sad.

I've been checking iTunes everyday in hopes of one last Black Rock Podcast, but no. I'm so sorry to see it all end. Oh, and the TV show, too.

Thank you all!

Mairuzu said...

You might not see another Black Rock podcast, but you never know when Amy, Curt, myself or anyone else from the crew might get a bug to want to ramble about another show (Zim?? NAwwwww) or about something else (tech, politics, weather, whatever). :)

It's a character-driven podcast, after all. heh

Thanks a lot, RachelB! See ya in another podcast! :)

Nancy Drew said...

Maybe Curt and Dan will help me with my Glee podcast.........

Like Rachel, I can always use those strong male leads......

hahahaha! (and no, I'm not serious about a Glee podcast. Talkshoe would block me for sure, LOL)

Lost Lindsey said...

So after a very long time I am finally writing my review of Lost’s finale. Properly entitled: The End.

Why such a long wait. Many reasons. Firstly I’m in denial that it is over. Secondly there was no episode podcast that we did so I wasn’t in any deadline or anything. And thirdly. I procrastinated. Oh well. I am writing it.

First off the opening was very interesting with the coffin, certainly not the one I was expecting. It was great visually, but looking back on it now I don’t see what purpose it really served the story.

We had some great lines right off the bad that were star wars centric: “He’s worse then Yoda” and Hurley's “I got a bad feeling about this.” Awesome.

I did watch the titles and I saw that everyone was back for the finale, but I never did see Walt except in a flashback, which is I suppose why they had to credit him for the episode. I really wish he had been in it. I don’t see why they couldn’t have gotten him to do it. I mean he was an oceanic survivor. And unlike the guy who played Eko, who really seems like a jack ass now expecting way too much to get paid for this episode. I don’t think Malcolm David Kelly would have asked for that much money for it. What else is he doing? So if anyone else knows why he wasn’t in this episode I would like to know. We didn’t get a real good explanation on that one…and his mysteries are still unsolved. Why was he special? Wasn’t he supposed to be important to the story line? I would really like to know the answers.

Next we get the hilarious grouping of Hurley, Charlie and Sayid. Loved this scene, knife references. One awake person, one person with out a clue and one person only “half awake.” Loved it.

We next see Vincent, Rose and Bernard again, they saved Desmond. But once Anti Locke showed up I was for sure they were goners. That was perhaps one of the scariest moments of the whole episode.

Next we got the first moment where one of my theories was proven right: Richard was alive!
Back in alt world, Juliet is back! Yeah. And looking after sun which then causes Sun and then Jin to flash so that they can speak English now. It was a beautiful moment played on screen. We then learn that Juliet is David’s Mom! Knew it!

Another note on the alt world which I will continue to call the alt. world. Looking back I wrote a note during the episode that they do not schedule surgeries that fast. However knowing what we know now on that world, I will allow it and all other inconsistencies that we have seen to stand because of what the alt world is. Its odd to think that the inconsistencies that we saw before and the time differences actually make sense when we realize that the alternative world that we had been seeing was actually a world created by the losties minds. More on my thoughts on that later.

Desmond succeeds in the real world by pulling the Plug that turned off the light - but also made Anti Locke vulnerable - allowing Jack and Kate to kill him, but also started the destruction of the island.

This also seems to cause Richard to start aging. But since the light was turned back on does he stop aging? Or is it because there is a new leader??? I want answers on that one! Especially since I did not see him in the end scene. Did anyone else?

That light cave was very interesting With out the water it looked somewhat man made or at least some aspects of it did. And it seemed that maybe what we next saw was lava. Which seems to tie into the volcano on the island which me might have heard rumbling in this episode. There also seemed to be bodies at the bottom of the light cave which meant that people had been down there in the past. Whether they died or what happened I don’t know. But I’m now even more confused as to the identity of Smokey. I want to believe that MIB got turned into Smokey by going down there. But both Jack and Desmond went down there and they didn’t turn into smoke. Though Jack’s body did appear on a different side of the island.

Lost Lindsey said...

Part 2:
We get the next moment when I was right: Lapidus was alive. Hehe. And he is all going to fly them off the island.

In alt world we see Shannon and Boone again…sigh Boone, Shannon and Sayid meeting causes them to flash, which is great, but I always thought Nadia was the love of his life?

We next get a mirror image birth scene at the back stage of a concert? Strange. Where Kate Flashes and then Claire and Charlie Flash. Loved this moment.

We next go into the ultimate Lost fight and my theory that Kate will be the ultimate hero is proven somewhat true as she is the one who kills smokey/mib.

Jack fixes Locke something he was trying to do in both timelines which causes Locke to finally flash. A really great moment for those two.

One of the best lines of the episode comes from Ben when he says: "If the Islands going down, I’m going down with it" The shippers get a moment next when Kate and Jack finally realize that they were made for each other, but it doesn’t last long. Looking back on this scene makes Jack kissing Kate in alt. world to wake up finally make sense, since she is the love of his life.

But the best “awakening” happens with Sawyer and Juliet who flash at the same time by touching each other; I really started crying at this moment. Very emotional since I missed their connection so much this season.

Jack decides to go back down the light cave to fix it Hurley’s face is amazing saying “I’m not going to let you die.” Then Jack passes it onto Hurley, which I was not expecting at all. My money was on Sawyer. Jack succeeds at making the light return and I still have to think that it all has to do with water. Ben is going to help Hurley in a Richard like role - did not expect that at all, but I like it

One of the most emotional scenes comes with the great moment at take off and Claire realizing she can be good with her and Kate leaving together to go take care of Aaron.

Ben decides to stay in alt reality - wants to reconnect with daughter and Danielle- I imagine him having his happy life with them and then crossing over

We finally then get an explanation of the alt. reality from Christian Shepherd. The alt reality is some type of middle place before heaven where they can find each other before crossing over as Christian says some die before some after. In the end their time on the island was one of the most important times for them. It defined who they were in the end. And they created this place to come to. Which I think is perfect. Some say it’s a cop out that they all died in the end. Earth to people…everyone dies in the end even you and me. And having this place I think is a great idea. All of the different symbolisms in the church were beautiful.

We get some Beautiful closure: Jacks eye closing at the very end, as the plane fly’s over the island leaving. I loved this ending, somatically it was beautiful and story wise everything came full circle with the final moments an almost shot for shot reversal of the series premiere.

My main theory did not come to play, with the Losties choosing where they got to live, because the alt reality was not what I thought it was. But I loved how it ended, it was unexpected, and had a lot of great symmetry.

I can understand how some are disappointed by lack of answers; I’m disappointed in that too. But I think if they had answered everything we would have been disappointed a lot more. In the end I really enjoyed this ending. It was entertaining. It will stand the test of time, and I think Lost will be looked back upon as a whole series and the finale as a classic. And anyone who says otherwise is Wrong.

buzmeg said...

@Lost Lindsey re: Walt

Walt wasn’t a factor in the story since Season Two. As a matter of comparison Miles Straume appeared in more episodes than Walt.

Walt left the Island with Michael and effectively ended his worth to the overall story.

IMHO they did just fine without bringing him back. He just wasn’t a factor.

Lost Lindsey said...

@buzmeg. I see your point. But Shannon and Boone havnt been factors since season 2 either really. But they were there. Sigh...Boone.

buzmeg said...

@Lost Lindsey

Shannon was killed and Boone died, both on The Island. Walt left the island alive and well.

For all we know, he may still be alive.

c said...

So its been a little bit since the end, and I am still working on accepting the finale.

Its not what I would have liked, but in examining ALL the pieces that were out there, in play, in the past, it is maybe the only way they could have brought it to an end.

Knowing the shape of things as they stand now, I wonder what everyone wanted, and where they would have rather seen the story end up? Both for the individuals they liked best, and the overall conclusion of the series.

Personally I was most disappointed at Locke's ending. While referenced this season in terms of being a true believer it wasn't enough to undo the sad & weak ending he found at Ben's hands.

I wanted him to make a comeback, somehow, even if only momentarily. Or if the upon the island being 'uncorked' somehow the MIB faded and the REAL John Locke began to return. If he sacrificed himself to Jack at the end, to save the Island, that would have been great.

Anyways, just wondering what else people were wanting, or worse, are still wanting from the series.

We are all now OFF THE ISLAND. But I am still curious. And wondering how everyone else is making out?

RachelB said...

OK, I just can't "let go" of LOST.

After listening to hours of podcasts and reading forums and blogs, I've come to accept and even enjoy some of The End. Yes, they did tie up some loose ends, especially fun stuff like Juliet's "it worked". And I enjoyed the thought of Hurley and Ben staying on as the Island protectors. But the whole flash-sideways conclusion was just dreadful.

I had begun to see the writing on the wall when we were warned dozens of times between seasons 5 and 6 that "this show is about the characters". But I still am so disappointed that there was not more closure to the island mythology.

I've come to believe that the creators of LOST never expected it to be anything more than another primetime soap opera, e.g., Greys Anatomy or Desperate Housewives, with the gimmick of being stranded on an uncharted island. When the viewers realized early on that the island was just a "purgatory", they started throwing in sci-fi and fantasy just to keep that fan base tuned in. They never had any real intent to tie up all that mythology.

But that is not my worst criticism. Quite frankly I don't accept the assertion that the show was about the characters. Nothing in the series ever made me care THAT much about these characters. Except for Hurley, they were all just pretty Hollywood faces. Even the creators seemed to accept a popular view that the characters were just chess pieces. The only character who actually had much "character" at all was Ben -- and that was largely due to the acting skill of Michael Emerson, not to the writers. The shallowness of this so called character story was well illustrated by the great "reunion" of Sayid and Shannon -- what an epic love story.

I expected that any of the plot lines introduced in the "treading water" seasons to be thrown out. But I believe that the creators had a responsibility to provide some closure for anything introduced early in Season 1, or after Season 4. I would really like to know what they thought the smoke monster was when it was introduced in the pilot episode. I fully believe that the explanation for the smoke monster and for the island itself was entirely conceived in Season 6.

Thanks again for the podcasts and the wonderful LOST community.

Mairuzu said...

RachelB++ :) Although I bet they conceived it a little sooner (maybe into season 5, sooner or later in that season somewhere).

Maybe they did have all this planned from the start but nothing in the show fully convinced or proves it to me. Many of our theories would have sufficed as better endings than the one we were given and would have tied up loose ends just as well or better in some cases. Certainly, the "amicable ending" would have provided a better feeling closure all-around and maintained the idea that nobody is wholly good or evil and the whole yin/yang, black/white, good/back balance thing.

Oh well. This was certainly a case of the trip being much better than the destination.

Mairuzu said...

s/back/bad/

Eric Weissen said...

The trip seasons 1-4 was better than the destination.

And wtf is this about a what Hurley and Ben did 18 minute feature on the DVD. They are having a laugh.

I was listening to Giacchino's scores yesterday and today. Excellent music, they were so mysterious etc.

I don't know about you guys but I am going retro and watching the classics where they could tell a good story and finish well too.

Mairuzu said...

Are they having a Richard laugh? :)

Anonymous said...

Are you guys serious? After six seasons, hundreds of hours of podcasting and you just leave it with a community call? For every other episode you did a community call then took 5 days to gather your thoughts and did another call.

But for the finale all you did was a community call immediately after, when you had ZERO time to gather any thoughts? Really? That's all Lost was worth to you? I wish I never listened to you in the first place, your closure was worse than the shows.

Lost Lindsey said...

Dear Anonymous,

I too wish we could have done one more podcast, but some felt like they were just done with Lost. And I respect that, it was a very polarizing episode.

Maybe I will just do a podcast of my own sometime soon.

Anonymous said...

Thanks Lindsey, someone should. Whoever it is that doesn't want to do it - just leave them off.

It is a disservice to the people who spent hundreds of hours listening to you guys to leave it without a real final podcast. I always considered the community calls worth listening to, but always rememebred they were done in the moment with no perspective or real thought on the episode put into them.

I hated the sideways too, but does that make me just forget that I loved this show for 6 years? Like I said, if someone from the show is too much of a baby to do a podcast because they didn't like the end then forget them. We listened for years because we want to hear your lost thoughts!

buzmeg said...

@Lost Lindsey
Totally agree with anonymous, except I totally enjoyed the finale.

Lindsey, You should do a final Finale podcast.
--
buzmeg

Eric Weissen said...

No Finale post mortem required, it was pants!

Perhaps you guys could do an original Star Wars podcast. Missing your humour and voices.

Thanks for your years of service, entertainment and analysis.

Mairuzu said...

I actually expected there to be something after the community call too. But I'm fine with nothing--or at the very least, I might prefer that we wait for the full 6-season box set to get released to rewatch it and THEN put together a final "no really.. THE END" kinda thing, right? :)

I was pretty disappointed with the ending, as I've probably made clear by now. But, I'm holding out some hope for the box set to contain some redemption for this show with its extra materials. We'll see. I still have a pre-order with Amazon that I've debated on cancelling. (Originally had two on reserve, but I decided against the second one until I get to see it.)

Harsh criticism from Anonymous, but completely understandable. I'm ambiguous on whether it mattered or not to do another but I think Curt flatly wasn't interested and I'm not sure I can blame him either.

Thanks for listening, Eric, Anonymous and everyone else. For better or worse, the podcasting portion of Lost was absolutely the best part.

On the topic of podcasting--if you liked us podcasting, what would you like to see us doing for the future? I kept thinking we should do a gadgets/technology podcast. I'm all about the portable stuff (Internet Tablets, Droids, Bluetooth headsets/keyboards/etc...). I'm genuinely curious to know what people would suggest.

Be well!

Eric Weissen said...

Hey, I would really like to hear a gadget, tech podcast. Please make that a reality. I'll subscribe on day one!

Anonymous said...

the extra on the dvd was pants.

Ann Arbour said...

Please come back for one more show. Even if you just rant about how bad season 6 was (which I kind of agree with) for the whole show we would still love to hear from you.

LOST REDUX said...

Hello Black Rock gang-

Its been too long.

I know there was some hard feelings over the ending of the series. But I wanted to say I'd love to hear one more show.

I also wanted to invite anyone that was interested over to take a look at an Alternative Season 6 Script over at:

lostredux.wordpress.com

This is a project I started pretty much by accident as the series ended, and I just wasn't satisfied by the conclusions we were left with. So, I-like so many here-delved into all that had come before with Lost, worked ideas, theories, and just had fun playing in that world. I tried to find...conclusions.

What came out in the end was a rough outline for an alternate version of everything that happens after THE INCIDENT. And after that came the hard part of filling in the rest to a rough 180 page script. In the end that would be a mere three hours on screen, but was three months in the making.

Sure, according to quantum physics, its possible the events of the ReDUX could occur as well as those of Season 6. But more its just a prism to imagine another end for the show. Which, I came to see, was really a nearly impossible task.

Truly the ReDUX project was fueled so much by this blog, this show, and all the amazing people that helped make this such an amazing experience.

Which is why I felt like I should share it.

Thanks for everything you've all contributed and given back. Its been an amazing ride.

While I will miss the adventure I am so happy to have been a part of it all.

Mairuzu said...

@LOST REDUX:
Very cool idea! It's obviously not canon, but then it's not like there aren't some EXCELLENT fan-made stories and scripts for other shows that I've read before (Star Trek is overflowing with them, for example).

I'm not one for having a lot of time to read stories anymore, but I think I'll download it to keep on my Droid to read whenever I can find time.

I can't help but go there: I wonder how well this could translate to a fan-made YouTube video effort made in 10 minute segments. I think YouTube might have exceptions for longer videos if you ask for them.. then maybe this could be done in 30-minute segments for a real fan-made mini-series. Anyway, just broiling thoughts there. :) Even TV-quality good CGI isn't hard to do anymore. (Check out http://revision3.com/filmriot for lessons, for example)

Anyway--I'll have to check it out and see how it stands up to my frank and grumpy review. :)

Curt Yanko said...

I would be willing to do a reunion show for this script!