Monday, February 22, 2010

The Substitute

Black Rock LOST Podcast: Season 6 episode 3 of ABC's TV show, LOST. Curt, Dan, Nancy Drew, Lost Lindsey and Special Guest Eve take a second pass at this episode and incorporate fan feedback.


We'll start with questions and thoughts from our fans and then see if the Black Rock crew has any additional thoughts or theories of their own.


Nancy Drew said...

Shhhh.........whispering so I don't wake up Dan.............


To see the items that I had brought up for discussion during the podcast, you can go here:

Lostaholics is experiencing technical difficulties with its front page (stupid wordpress) and we have been unable to post any front page articles, which is where I would have liked to have this.

Mairuzu said...

Thank you for listening to.. the snoozecast. :)

That'll teach me for moving from my office chair to a recliner during the podcast. :)

Nancy Drew said...

hahaahaha, That was funny......

Lindsey was talking and all of sudden we could hear snoring. I thought you were messing with her at first, hahaha.

Have you heard the podcast yet?

Anonymous said...

I love your podcast but you guys seem to take continuity errors so personally. Inexcusable? There are hundreds of people that work on a show like this, and the date on a sonogram is not something that would even be in a script. Things like these fall through the crack. Are they annoying to the die hard Lost fans? Of course, but inexcusable and Gregg Nations should pay his salary to fans? Come on guys, lighten up. Plus, it's barely noticeable in the show!

eddy said...

a lullaby for dan


Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket
Never let it fade away
Catch a falling star and put it in your pocket
Save it for a rainy day

great fun episode all round. also burst out laughing :) sorry dan. i'm laughing with ya, funny regardless.

eddy said...

in response to the facebook update by amy -

Black Rock Podcast -

Warning: May contain traces of NUTS!

eddy said...

Amy - great work on the items on the table. i had hoped someone could delve into their mysteries, but you've given it the Nancy-pedia treatment. awesome.

warningtrax said...

Desmond and the ALT
(The S3E8 “Flashes Before Your Eyes” Desmond)

With all the ballyhoo concerning the ALT, I did some thinking and re-watching....

I’m guess someone may have already brought this up, but I haven’t found it yet. This particular episode has always stuck with me and I believe it is a critical episode to the conclusion to this story. Now, I may have tangible reasons to back up my hunch. I think that this was the beginning of the ALT, not the bomb exploding or Jacob dying.

After waking up from the fall from the ladder (or the hatch imploding), Desmond is getting dressed to speak to Widmore about marrying Penny. Penny notices the red paint on his neck. This mirrors the blood on Jack neck during the flight of ALT 815. Does this signify the ALT? Is this our heads up?

Most importantly, in Desmond’s final experience in this timeline we find him again sitting in the pub when the same songs plays and the soccer goal is scored. Desmond realizes that he simply got the day wrong.

“I had the wrong night. I was right. I was off by a night. I heard the song and then -- I remember this. I'm not crazy. I can still change things. I can still change it.”

Unfortunately, this is when Jimmy Lennon cracks him with a cricket bat, and it’s back to the island we go.

But, what if he did change things? What if Desmond goes back to Penny and becomes a “man of means” as he told the bartender that he someday would?
It’s apparent that Mrs. Hawking was not happy with her intervention with Desmond. Also, she seemed genuinely shocked when Desmond initially asked for the ring. Did she fail? Did Desmond defy the course corrections of the universe? Is Desmond’s “unique qualifications” responsible for the ALT?

Max Headroom said...

I really enjoyed the latest podcast breaking down The Substitute. The description of the objects on the table was outstanding and left my head spinning. Great work Amy!

I share the reservations about the alternate timeline and feel that the stories will factor into the endgame. Having said that, a strong character like Ben being relegated to teaching history and complaning abut coffee grounds is concerning. What's next? Will we see Sayid as the owner of a Radio Shack? It's probably better to sit back, enjoy the community, and trust the writers.

Dan's late evening nap was hilarious. His snoring was eerily similar to the dulcet tones of an old VW...priceless. Sweet dreams.

eddy said...

hey max headroom. thnks 4a chuckle w your 3 little words to KeystoLost.

Claire + Rousseau = Clousseau. dunno how you'd spell it but funny anyways. i imagine her slipping into one of her traps and coconuts falling on her head.

eddy said...

i didn't know hoe long this was til i ended. anyways, it has to be split into two parts so that i could post it.

Part 1

re the ALT or AT, Darlton still wants to use the word Parallel, which they say gives the same weight to the AT. Curt says, we're not too invested in the characters. the on island characters, for better or worse are who we've grown with, spent 5 seasons with, n they have become the people we see in S6 because of all the things they have experienced.

based on their own exposition, we have a divergent stream with our Big Rock in the river and perhaps a convergence later in S6. if the timelines/stories are parallel, then the word itself suggest that they will keep going forever, never crossing. maybe it needs a large enough force/event 2 bring it back together. like electromagnets deflecting a stream of electrons.

i wonder which theory the writers subscribe to in relation to time and the universe. The quantum theory of possibilities, that all things are not foretold and are based on decisions, we create new paths/futures. Or the Einstein special relativity/large view of the universe, where time is a strip or quite possibly a mobius strip, that all events have occured or are occuring. like the roll of film. all shots have been taken, but our existence only lets us see one frame at a time. then the postulated ability to timetravel but only moving up n down the same film strip. no other universes. i guess the writers will have a four-toed foot in both camps.

back to the story telling device we are currently seeing. with the AT, i'm still giving the writers my trust as they must be setting the pieces in play in the AT.

the questions/points raised re Desmond in the podcast n warningtrax are interesting. lets use Dan's notion of him being a "quantum singulairty" as a launching point. knowing that the rules don't apply - i mean what does that even mean? -anyways, writer's wriggle room i guess. so desmond may be the key figure to tie in all of the AT stories, seen so far and yet to be presented. otherwise we may see more fan service type scenes, like frogurt getting ready 4 another exciting day selling frozen yoghurts.

i present to u my Nancy Drew mirror image for Desmond. I haven't heard this on any podcasts yet.

He is also on a quest. Like John Locke as Jeremy Bentham. "The Island is not done with you!" i dont know how, but i'll conveniently pick up the story after he has agreed to use his RULE-bending powers in the AT. So as the only person in the AT who has any idea of what's going on, he MUST get the AT Losties to get together and do something. Dunno what yet. Their lives seemed intertwined. They will keep bumping into each other. He may get opposition, or even all of them tell him to get lost. In this case he will mirror Jeremy Bentham.

end pt 1

eddy said...

Part 2

Maybe Widmore and or Paik step in - as good guys. They have found/bought Tovar Hanso's journal and are looking for the Island, or have collected various artifacts that point to its existence. So with their considerable resources- maybe aided by Hurley's millions, possibly Billions in the AT - they set about one by one changing the minds of the AT Losties to get together. They have built their own LampPost but maybe it points them towards an island not in their plane of existence. Desmond gives them instructions, gained from his timeline, that they must detonate a nuclear device in the AT now, for the two timelines to converge again. The convincing is hard because all the AT losties know that they may cease to exist as they currently know it. or maybe the AT Losties are the "They" that Jacob was referring to all along.

in reference to his scene on flight 815X, Desmond disappears. was he even there. here's a crazy take. either he was using RULE-bending ability -which could he could still be getting a hang of, or the ability to cross dimensions and/or time is limited at best - or he was propelled there momentarily by a device/machine like the FDW. i can imagine a scene when he gets pulled back - maybe to Tunisia - and he's swearing at some tech-guy and says "I needed more time, brotha. We need more time!" with Widmore looking on.

woo. that was a long one.

warningtrax said...

Nice post, Eddy. Lots to ponder there.

I can't help but think that the separate, yet equal, realities represents one of fate and the other, free will. One where Jacob’s involvement steers the course of events and the other where he simply doesn’t and life plays itself out (if that could ever happen). Still, it initially appears as if several characters are better off without the island experience while others needed the crash of 815 to hit rock bottom to start rebuilding their lives. At the end of this thing, I don’t know if it will be possible for everyone will get what they really need.

Another curiosity is those little inklings several of the AT characters get from time to time. Those moments of deja vu just keep cropping up. I will bet a Dharma beer, however, that Locke will never experience anything like that in the AT...he got his little inklings post-crash on the island. He appears to be on the flip side of this whole thing. He knew when it would rain on the island but I’m thinking the sprinkler system caught him a little off guard. Conversely, Jack may be overcome with these moments and will lead them back once again. (He kind of lead them back one...sort of, with lots of help.)

Radio Shack...I like that. “Yes, it can be fixed. It may take a while. Hurley, run to Russeau’s and get me a battery.”

Yes, Desmond is our reluctant hero is this drama. Although frequently told that he is a good man, Desmond is continually berated as a coward and told that he will never amount to anything-- that the single most important thing he will ever do is push a button. If you want to survive the island, you follow John. If you want to survive Dharmaville, you follow Sawyer. If you need to come back to the island, you follow Jack. If Jacob’s dead, you follow Hurley. If you want it all to end, follow Desmond. He is uniquely qualified, after all.

Interesting thoughts about Paik and Widmore. I put those two on opposing sides of “funding in the real world” as each aids either Jacob or the other cat.

Curt said...

I've come back around to thinking we've seen the ending in the S6 pilot. This thing ends with the losties completing what Juliet saw as 'it worked'. Which is why there is no alternate time line, it's all one time line with a loop or two in it. I don't know how happy I am with this, I think there is still a paradox but I'll do my best to let go.

warningtrax said...

Curt, although you may very well be right, I sure hope you’re wrong. For whatever reason, I feel that I am owed the existence of everything that happened on the island prior to the 815 crash. I want to see Radzinski work on the blast door map and the events that led to his suicide. Latin? Radzinski knows Latin? Isn’t that an Other’s thing? What about Mikhail and his lost eye? I want to see someone edit the orientation film. I want to see someone cut pages from a bible and stash the cut film in it. I want to see people staffing the Pearl. Will none of this happen? Did it ever happen?

Curt said...

I hear you brotha, Dan too is worried that is heading to a Twin Peaks type of ending. Not quite the same but maybe, quite literally, much to do about nothing.

warningtrax said...

The track record of our beloved writers is not a good one with regard to endings. Let's hope they get this one right.

Mairuzu said...

I may just have to sleep through the reactions show for the finale if it turns out to have all been a dream. Maybe dream up my own better ending. ;)

Mairuzu said...

As for the idea that we take continuity error so personally, I'm of SOME agreement that it's being hammered on too harshly but it does come along with hiding easter-eggs and clues throughout the show. That is, if you produce a show that hides clues or cute messages in the details, the heightened scrutiny and criticism over continuity will come along with it.

Fear not, however... :) Everyone makes mistakes. This particular detail, about the ultrasound date stamp, does stand out as a particularly overt mistake for a show of this high a production quality. That being said, the production crew should still feel a great sense of accomplishment in that there are so few complaints about continuity, despite how harshly those few get criticized. We're still watching and buying merchandising and DVD's, after all.

JayJay said...

I think Dan started to sleep thru Amy's spiel about the table contents. Everything started to become silent at that time.

Nancy Drew said...

hmmm......that might be helpful information to save for when I really need it......


eddy said...

Hey dan , good call on re the continuity. i think the blackrock does pretty well in the fanboy stakes. once in a while we do call for Greg Nations head on a pike, but yes overall for a show with soo many clues, mysterious, easter eggs, it is to be expected.

i think the one of the first real easter eggs was Ezra J Sharkington. The dharma logo was supposed to be a quick pass thru the screen but with the advent of HD tv etc, a lot of people picked up on it and have been looking for more ever snce. i know of some podcasters who would run the episode thru video programs to look frame by frame.

i think its great that the producers/writers are doing this for the fans, but the pendulum swings both ways. knowing that the show creates such interest that people with similar names are screen capped and compared ad nauseam, it serves the continuity team to at least check again. i know there are certain limitations for a tv show as some things do slip thru the crack.

in reference to the sonogram - curt's point was that the date is seared into our collective-fandom-memory. September 22, 2004. Ask yourself what you were doing. Anyways, if it was another scene at another time, we would also scrutinise the dates to see if it fits in any theories - but sometimes a date is a date. The sonogram date was probably an error but the Day of the crash should not be wrong.

Anonymous said...

I understand you guys are dedicated fans. So am I. But ease up on the "Official Podcast." Take it for what it is — the writers are simply trying to steer us in the right direction, so we don't get bogged down in false assumptions.

Mairuzu said...

But.. the false assumptions are FUN!