Wednesday, March 3, 2010

Sundown - Community Call

Black Rock LOST Podcast: Season 6 episode 6 of ABC's TV show, LOST. Curt, Dan, Nancy Drew, Lost Lindsey and our friends from the Smoke Hatch help us try to process the latest episode in our popular Initial Reactions format.


Sayid can, then fight some more and then again. Here we thought it was the Ash keeping Smocke out, doh!


warningtrax said...

Just some quick hits...

I think we should consider renaming Jacob and MIB to Pot and Kettle. They both are masters of taking advantage of people who are in extremely vulnerable and impressionable states. Only in the heights of tragedy are either of these two effective. While one is sneaky and the other overt, both appear to have blood on their hands. Is there even a “good guy” among these two? Of all the talk about “good guys” across five season, I don’t think we really have any.
The final scene at the temple was more chilling than Locke on the beach with the orange slice in his mouth or even Charlie hanging from a tree. On this hero’s journey, I believe we’re nearing the darkest hour. I just wish I knew who the hero was. Jack? It seems that the writers are aiming for an epic conclusion, however.
When you consider how long Richard has been on this island, didn’t you find it strange that he wasn’t at the temple when MIB struck? I recall he appeared to be in quite a hurry to get there when we last saw him.
I don’t think Jin and Kate will become productive members of the Black Team. Then again, they haven’t made their deal with the devil yet, like Sawyer, Dogan and Sayid did. Regardless, the Black Team is on a roll while the White(?) Team is still staring at the ocean, which kind of reminds me of the time Luke spent sitting in the swamp with Yoda.
The Kate and Crazy Claire reunion should make for some good TV.
If Dogan is to be believed, Jacob and MIB operate (exist) under different rules: Jacob spoke to Ben before being killed. MIB appears to be invincible while Jacob seemed helpless against Ben’s easily anticipated attack.

Mairuzu said...

FIRST...DOH! Nope.. second post!

Darn! :)

Nancy Drew said...

Speaking of Ben.........I wonder if HE is going to have to be the one to kill MIB. We have seen balance throughout five seasons, including mirror images, and I just have to wonder if Ben will actually be the one that has to "clean up his own mess". He did, after all, kill John Locke making it possible for MIB to be his doppleganger.

Nancy Drew said...

OH! Also, the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Libby is David's mother. And I'm actually understanding (or able to see) the alternate timeline better if I keep telling myself that it's actually the beginning of the show, instead of the ending. I really think that John Locke being able to walk again--or be healed--after landing on the island was the result of some deal he made with Jacob, but it ends up going all wrong when Ben turns the wheel instead of John.

warningtrax said...

Libby! I really like that!

JayJay said...

How does Dogen's son play baseball in one time line and in another take a total 180degree turn and play the piano. It sure is the bizarro world.

warningtrax said...

As Kate walked through the aftermath at the temple and cooly picked up a rifle laying next to a body, I couldn’t help but recall the scene in the Pilot where Kate is sobbing as she takes the shoes from a casualty of flight 815. It’s a shame Kate’s character arc wasn’t more pronounced between these two points.

Speaking of the shoes: of the infinite actions these characters have available to them courtesy of the imaginative engines of the writers, I am always amazed when the writers repeat improbable actions and events, but in different circumstances and involving different characters. This time, it’s both Kate and Jack taking the shoes off a body. For whatever reason, I think that’s cool.

warningtrax said...

It seems we’re getting a steady diet of “balance” this season. From the scales in the cliffside cave to Dogan’s test, balance has emphasized as well as illustrated. What if maintaining balance is what the island is all about, with Jacob on one side and MIB on the other?

When I consider Jacob’s death, the white rock thrown into the ocean, and MonsterLocke’s overwhelming victory at the temple, I have to conclude that the balance has shifted to MonsterLocke. Maybe other times in the past the balance was shifted in favor of Jacob? Maybe this balance has been swinging like a pendulum for centuries as each tries to destroy the existence of the other.

Regardless, I think the island is searching for balance and I suppose there are two way to achieve balance-- put two rocks on the scale, or none. That is, have both MonsterLocke and Jacob coexist, or throw them both in the ocean. Either way, you’re in balance. Could Adam and Eve be MonsterLocke and Jacob? Could that be the end game?

JayJay said...

First they said there will be no time travel. Now there's Vampires. Forget Nancy Drew afterdark, Sayid and Claire are turning crazy once it's Sundown. Something to do with the darkness/night making them become even more creepier. After all he’s on the dark side, so it would make sense their abilites manifest at night. Jacob was killed at night, Locke communed in the cabin with a spirit at night, Claire left Aaron and went off with Christian at night. Ben was shot by Sayid at night. Hmm

JayJay said...

I don't think the temple people switch allegiances, I think it's all about one thing, and Sawyer said it back in the beginning of season 5. "I'm doing what I've always been doing, SURVIVING". The temple people were switching side to survive, because they were scared.

To all those people who are religious, would you die for your religion and beliefs, like staying in the temple and fight, knowing full well you were going to die, or would you deny your faith all the name of survival? (The question is rehtorical)

Mairuzu said...

Or, in their case, they may have had their faith shattered and joined what appears to have proven itself to be the winning side. There's been plenty of earnestly switched faiths based on outcomes throughout history as well. It could be the outcome in this case: maybe Jacob wasn't entirely honest with us after all, let's see what this guy's all about. You could say it more agnostic than faithful or scientific.

arturo said...

its so confusing, I don't understand why MIB needs to recruit an army? Jacob and Dogen are dead, so why can't he just use the donkey wheel to escape from the island?

Or just fly in the bearing of 43 degrees or something over the ocean. He is a flying smoke, he should've been able to escape long time ago...

I guess, there is something on the island he needs, perhaps he wants to get back in time to his family or something, because he was trapped for long time and he said he knows how it feels to lose somebody... Maybe he had a family and Jacob killed them or something and took him away from them to the island?!

I hope they are going to conclude the two timelines soon, merge them together, because its getting really confusing.

arturo said...

I just found a very interesting comment on jacob's cabin site by charlie, and I think somebody mentioned this as well on last podcast.

That alte-verse (sideways) is MIB’s bargain timeline. Maybe its not a real timeline, but instead it is whats going on inside smokey’s head, he is creating this timeline based on stuff he scanned.

This makes a bit more sense to me, why they are making 2 timelines...

JayJay said...

I did read somewhere which said, the purposes of the sideways story should be made clear by the 6th episode. I don't know if that meant the 6th hour, or the 6th week episode.

Sayid'sgirl said...

Nancy Drew
I was expecting the episodes to continue mirroring the season one episodes too. There is a similarity in the two though. In both of the episodes the Losties are divded into two groups.

Hurley, Locke, Sun and Jin went to the caves with Jack. Kate, Sawyer and Sayid stayed on the beach.

Claire, Sawyer, Kate, Sayid and Jin are with MIB. Hurley, Sun, Ben, Frank, Miles and Ilana are with Jack.

Eric Weissen said...

A mirror image is that Dogun was asked to do something and made a choice to save the life of a loved one, his son. This was also the case with Julliette and Rachel who was dying of cancer.

The only difference is that it was Jacob in the first example and ben in the second. not being able to kill each other is mirrored with Ben and Charles. Perhaps the mortals are regulated by the same rules as the gods.

Wild card prediction is that the person coming back to the Island is Charles Widmore.

Any takers?

Bob said...

For people still wondering what the flash sideways world is see the following from Darlton but don't if you don't want to know.

Ryan said...

After consideration here's my version of Richard's origin.

He came on the Black Rock and became the leader of the "Others" at that time. MIB who was alive at the time was the "Richard" advisor of that time. He was the go-between Richard and Jacob. MIB who was subordinate to Jacob tried to get Richard to do as Ben did and kill Jacob as only the leader of the Others can do. MIB was tired of the endless cycle he complained about in The Incident. Richard refused and ended up killing MIB and as a consequence he took MIB's place as the second man on the island but this time Jacob did not tell Richard what his purpose was because he didn't want Richard to become another MIB. This is why Richard seems so clueless now. He never received the information he needed for his job.

Eric Weissen said...

Wow Ryan, that is a really well thought out theory and would explain why Richard is lacking information.

Ryan said...

On Richard: It occurs to me that maybe the knife that Dogen gave Sayid was the one Richard used on MIB in the past.

Revision of my alt theory:

Jacob set all the events in motion for the the incident (Jugheadies, Armies, Dharmies, Losties, Freighties, Flashies, Ajiries etc". The bomb was wired to go off on impact by Sayid but didn't. The reason is that until Jacob died it couldn't because as long as he was alive a major change like that couldn't happen. It'd be stopped as Michael's dying was. How you say as it's 2 different times? Chalk it up to as the 5th Doctor says to the Brigadier in Mawdryn Undead " Brigadier you never did appreciate the inter-relationship of time!?

Once he was dead this incredible change could take place (as opposed to the minor one of Michael) and create another timestream. This new timeline splits from '77 and while free from Jacob's orignal "edits" is either destiny working without him or he does have some presence but of undetermined influence.

Possibly this is Desmond's role as required by Jacob to gather them together and go to the island. My question is the outside would we knew for 5 years still in existence or is it altered? In Star Trek when McCoy changed history with the Guardian of Forever only the people on the planet weren't effected by the changes but the Enterprise in orbit was gone and Earth was different.

What the purpose of it is I don't know. Crazy theory is that the rest of our heroes die on the island but their counterparts are brought there to finish the task. Once there or before they receive the memories of their other selves.

eddy said...

It would have been great for Keamy to taunt Sayid re his nieces, which causes him to flip out and kill him.... with a kitchen knife. that would have been awesome, and mirror how Ben killed him down in the Orchid.

Still gets me how quickly the Others switched sides. i listened to the IR podcast and you guys sort said HUH? as well.

We have been led to believe that people have become Others by being persuaded/convinced that this is the "right" path. Do they also know that there is a Smoky/MIB around that wil try to lure you away from the "Right Path"? or do these people feel that they have had the short end of a bargain, like Dogen. Jacob presents them with a possibility that can only exist if they remain on the island. So they feel helpless, no choice even tho one has been presented to you. So as soon as Jacob dies, and maybe his hold on them is gone, they pack up and get the Hell outta Dodge. Are there any True Believers? all an illusion. Sooo very confusing.

And yes, creepy ending. that would have made a great ending or even part1 of an ending. the ones where what you know/feel to be the good side is not the victor. have we reached our end of Empire Strikes back moment in Lost. now we await "Luke" to Return. maybe Jack is the main protagonist now, and as ObiWanJacobi instructs Hurley and perhaps trains Jack SkyShephard on the ways to bring down MIB. he must let go (of science) and use the force (faith)

yes the questions of Ilana remain. As all hell breaks loose inside the temple, we get a somewhat clunky return of Lapidus, Ilana, Sun and Ben. Just plot pieces to move the story along and to let us know they are still around. Also i predict we will see Richard's return as he may be able to give some further exposition, ie a campfire meeting with the new group. i really do hope he says " i lied to MIB. i DO know what the heck is going on and we must get to ... (another mysterious building/ruins) or help Jack. i don't like clueless RA.

SO Kate is now with the group, just a survival technique perhaps as this is what will get her a few more hours. Sawyer? - perhaps he will rendezvous with them too, as well as Jin, both trapped/taken prisoner?

Sayid/Claire - gone to the darkside. but is there still good in these "Darth Vaders" and can we get "Anakin" back in them. maybe that was Dogen's gambit... well see where that got him.

Claire's writing is still confusing. She was told by MIB that Aaron is with the Others. Jin reinforces that belief after switching his story. She says she will kill Kate if the former were true. Kate tells her she took Aaron. Claire doesn't confront MIB to say that all his words were a lie, a manipulation. I expect a confrontation between Claire and Kate soon tho

i have no idea what the next episode is called and i love it. they should be going away from the Season 1 mirroring as this was the last chance to get us with the centric eps and title. And they shoudl really go away from centric eps now, there's so much to reveal, just get on with it already!!!! :)


Eric Weissen said...

I think that the visions the majority of visions on Island that appeared to the Losties (candidates) were the work of or were Smokey.

eddy said...

I'm sure my esteemed colleagues at the Black Rock Podcast has come across this before but i just came across it just now and thought i'd share.

"Nothing that results from human progress is achieved with unanimous consent. And those who are enlightened before the others are condemned to pursue that light in spite of others" - Christopher Columbus

arturo said...

on official podcast, they said that episode nine will about about richard and the island! can't wait!

Mairuzu said...

Mildly spoilerific? Thankfully only mildly.. watch it. :) (At least preface it with a SPOILER warning, or something, if it's about a future ep or if it's some confirmed nugget of details.)